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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 05:50:48 AM

Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 05:50:48 AM
Check out the cover here. (http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/runequest-2-getting-reprint-with-fixed.html) This is not a photoshop; Rick Mients, the new Glorantha boss, shared the cover on social media and has also posted the table of contents (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BELK9yWvNGg/VkK_v--me5I/AAAAAAAAB_g/NexFGnyPWB0/w1429-h927-no/Screen%2BShot%2B2015-11-10%2Bat%2B11.07.48%2BPM.png).

Looks like this product is going to be referred to as the "Classic Edition" and will at long last have the errata and editions which were previously printed on the inside covers properly incorporated into the text, making this perhaps the most easy-to-use version of RQ2 yet.

Feels like a really sensible move to me; RQ6 may be a great system but it'd be nice to have this as an alternative, and it shows just how much the new Chaosium management care about the company's history. Hopefully, it also means that Moon Design-Chaosium intend to keep the Glorantha Classics series in print too.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 05:56:48 AM
Interestingly, on the Gloranthan group on Google+ Rick mentioned something about "expanded appendices", so this might actually offer a little more than the original RQ2 did.

This probably won't constitute substantial rules changes, since to my understanding the point of the reprint is as a service to the fairly substantial faction in the Glorantha community who still play RQ2 and probably won't be buying into the RQ6 rendition of Glorantha, but it'd be interesting to see what they do. At the very least, the advert for HeroQuest probably deserves a little explanation for those who don't know the history...
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 06:00:31 AM
And a bit more from Rick on RPGGeek:

Quote
This will be made available as a Color Hardcover book with sewn binding and as a Leatherette hardcover (gold foil logos) with a color dustjacket. No softcover. The art looks at least as good as the originals, if not better, since they all got cleaned up a fair bit. As was said, I own the original cover color painting by Luise Perrine so it looks extra sharp. The book is 99.9% done, by the way. We are just doing the very last proofreading for typos. The PDF is all bookmarked and ready to go too.

In short, when Greg Stafford told us he was handing Chaosium over to Moon Design because they as well as having sound business sense they are also really enthusiastic fans, he wasn't fucking kidding. This is going to be awesome.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: RunningLaser on November 12, 2015, 07:33:10 AM
This is a Runequest I can get behind.  I really liked 2nd edition.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: S'mon on November 12, 2015, 07:35:21 AM
Cool - I bought an ancient 2nd hand copy of RQ2, but this looks well worth looking into.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 07:49:52 AM
I have a 2nd edition copy signed by Greg Stafford, but I'm reluctant to subject it to the rigours of play - particularly since it's a softcover. It sounds like the new hardcover versions will be sturdier.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Nerzenjäger on November 12, 2015, 08:05:23 AM
I had both the 2nd Ed soft cover and the old gold foil limited edition. They suffered from the "too rare to play with it"-syndrome. It's nice to know I will soon be able to just buy the game 1st hand.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: estar on November 12, 2015, 08:08:11 AM
All I know is that the limbs will be a'flying again (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2010/06/runequest-nights-and-oh-body-parts-flew.html)!
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 12, 2015, 09:27:09 AM
I'm kind of excited about getting a new, sturdy copy of those rules. RQ2 was the first system I really felt sympatico with... though I never did take to Glorantha.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 09:35:05 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think I want a leatherette copy.

Give Chaosium 2.0 full credit: when it comes to thinking up ways of getting out of a financial hole they're really on the ball. Revised reprints are so much quicker and less expensive to develop than brand new products, and RQ2 only being available in a shaky softcover format means that there must be hosts of people who'd snap this up simply to have a sturdier copy of the rules at their table.

Add the curiosity factor for those who missed the RQ2 bus first time around - which I'm sure is at a peak thanks to the OSR making people look back at the games of the 1970s - and you've got a product that they can turn out quickly, sell at a premium, and don't necessarily have to print too many of. And thanks to MDP being responsible for Glorantha Classics, they're probably in a better position than anyone to figure out who's still using the RQ2 rules, and people who buy this and get into RQ2 for the first time will find the Glorantha Classics line their first port of call... it's really quite brilliant when you break it down. Just about the only possible downside is product line fragmentation, but so long as they clearly and unambiguously market it as a nostalgia product (and the big fat CLASSIC EDITION branding on the table of contents extracts suggests that's exactly what they intend), it shouldn't do much harm.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 09:37:30 AM
(I mean, obviously it's not going to sweep away all Chaosium's debts in one fell swoop, but it's a smart thing they can do to help with it that won't take an undue amount of time away from more pressing issues like getting the CoC7 Kickstarter done.)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Larsdangly on November 12, 2015, 10:06:20 AM
Best news ever. Basically all the games Chaosium put out ca. 1977-1985 could have kept their rules in their original forms and they would still look great today. Runequest; Pendragon; Call of Cthulhu; Stormbringer - I think all of them actually play better in their first versions than in later editions.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Larsdangly on November 12, 2015, 10:11:51 AM
Quote from: estar;864042
All I know is that the limbs will be a'flying again (http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2010/06/runequest-nights-and-oh-body-parts-flew.html)!


I ran an awesome RQ2 game last Xmas and there was a hilarious fight in which half of the dozen combatants had an arm or leg hacked off in the same round.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 12, 2015, 10:27:26 AM
Hopefully there will be a nice PDF of it as well.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 12, 2015, 01:49:16 PM
Rick said there will be.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: RunningLaser on November 12, 2015, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: Warthur;864082
Rick said there will be.


That's very cool.  It's nice they are reprinting it, but I'm sure the deluxe version will be $50 at least.  Good to have a less expensive option.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Just Another Snake Cult on November 12, 2015, 02:12:43 PM
Sweeeeeeeeeeeet.

Make nice with Michael Moorcock next, please. Then do the same with 1st Ed STORMBRINGER.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 12, 2015, 02:43:32 PM
Quote from: Warthur;864082
Rick said there will be.
Oh yeah... I missed that bit.
I definitely want hardcopy, and I do expect to pay a bit of a premium for it... but a PDF will come in handy whan actually running it.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Doughdee222 on November 12, 2015, 05:32:15 PM
Is it really needed though? This past summer I bought Runequest 6 for almost $90 and it's a pretty darn good set of rules. I'll be happy to play that someday if I can convince my friends.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: P&P on November 12, 2015, 05:44:30 PM
Thank goodness, my old softcover copy is physically disintegrating.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: kosmos1214 on November 12, 2015, 08:31:23 PM
for thoughs of us who arnt familiar with RQ 2e (or RQ at all in my case) what changed in later eds in short ?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 12, 2015, 10:29:36 PM
Quote from: Doughdee222;864116
This past summer I bought Runequest 6 for almost $90 and it's a pretty darn good set of rules.
Why did it cost you so much?

Quote
Is it really needed though?
Is any hobby item ever 'needed'?
Desired is more like.
RQ6 is very nice but it does change a number of things... XP works differently, the Resistance Formula/Table is gone... various shifts of things toward being slightly heavier rules-wise. I remain quite fond of the way RQ2/BRP/CoC did XP and the Resistance Formula never bugged me... so it's that much closer to the way I play BRP-derived games... AND I'd really like a new copy so I can retire my old one.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Christopher Brady on November 12, 2015, 11:28:14 PM
I think I'm the only one saddened by this.  Instead of making a new car, with better features and maybe better gas mileage, this hobby has got to be the only one in which trotting out the old Model T is praised.

Gamers hate change.  This is what threads like this tells me.

If it's not how was back in the day, it's crap.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Doughdee222 on November 12, 2015, 11:38:16 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864134
Why did it cost you so much?

Is any hobby item ever 'needed'?
Desired is more like.
RQ6 is very nice but it does change a number of things... XP works differently, the Resistance Formula/Table is gone... various shifts of things toward being slightly heavier rules-wise. I remain quite fond of the way RQ2/BRP/CoC did XP and the Resistance Formula never bugged me... so it's that much closer to the way I play BRP-derived games... AND I'd really like a new copy so I can retire my old one.



It was the cheapest Amazon had. I went to several stores and no one else had it.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 01:17:06 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864138
I think I'm the only one saddened by this.  Instead of making a new car, with better features and maybe better gas mileage, this hobby has got to be the only one in which trotting out the old Model T is praised.

Gamers hate change.  This is what threads like this tells me.

If it's not how was back in the day, it's crap.
And see, I totally disagree with what seem to be your assumptions that new is automatically better.
Games are NOT technology... they change to suit fads and tastes and the company need to create cash flow/new product... but there's absolutely no reason to assume that I'm going to like a game created today better than one created in the 70s... or visa versa.
Old games still work just the same as they always did, don't require special fuels or antiquated replacement parts. You might change, your tastes may shift... but the game doesn't.
I've played LOTS of different systems. Some I like, some I don't. But if I find one I like I'm not going to feel guilty about returning to it. It's not 'nostalgia'... it's not like some guy who won't listen to any music that came out after he left High School.
It's more like food... if you try eating steak and like it, why stop eating steak? Not that you have to have steak at every meal, but why write it off just because you were eating steak as a kid?
And if you don't like steak why force yourself to eat it in the name of some ersatz 'progress'?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 01:20:07 AM
Quote from: Doughdee222;864139
It was the cheapest Amazon had. I went to several stores and no one else had it.
Oh, was it after it went out of print because of the Chaosium shakeup?
I had to do a bit of a search to find a BRP hardcover... the 'entrepreneurs' on Amazon and Ebay were pricing them in the hundreds and even thousands. In the end I managed to track down a copy on the shelves at Games of Berkely and had a friend up there grab it for me... at regular retail price.
I'm still on the hunt for a second copy of the Rome book (at a reasonable price).
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Baulderstone on November 13, 2015, 02:04:30 AM
RQ 6 is still available for sale at $60 on The Design Mechanism's website.

Half the RPG books on Amazon are great deals, and the other half are unjustified price qouging.

On the positive end, I got a hardcover of RQ 2 with dustjacket for $40 through Amazon. The actual seller was an office supply company, so I expect they had no idea what they were selling.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Dirk Remmecke on November 13, 2015, 02:20:15 AM
Quote from: Warthur;864050
and RQ2 only being available in a shaky softcover format means that there must be hosts of people who'd snap this up simply to have a sturdier copy of the rules at their table.

I could swear that a friend of mine had a hardcover of RQ2. I remember that because I wondered that it even had a dustjacket, something I had never seen on an RPG book before.


Edit: Good to see that Baulderstone knows that edition as well. I was not dreaming.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 13, 2015, 02:31:30 AM
Huh, wasn't aware of that. Even so, the vast majority of copies I've seen out there have been softcover so I reckon the point still stands.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: Baulderstone;864145
RQ 6 is still available for sale at $60 on The Design Mechanism's website.
Oh! Good! For some reason I was under the impression they'd pulled it in anticipation of the new Glorantha-added version... which, now that I think about it, makes no sense.
So many other things... Chaosium monographs, BRP stuff... all the BRP stuff Alephtar did... have been yanked, sold-out, nullified.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Jason D on November 13, 2015, 03:23:35 AM
Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;864092
Sweeeeeeeeeeeet.

Make nice with Michael Moorcock next, please. Then do the same with 1st Ed STORMBRINGER.


Yes, please.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Warthur on November 13, 2015, 05:26:24 AM
The monographs are still sold as PDFs, they just aren't making any more or producing hard copies. Which makes sense because so far as I can make out the monograph idea was barely a step above just putting your stuff out on drivethru in the first place.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 07:22:35 AM
Quote from: Warthur;864160
The monographs are still sold as PDFs, they just aren't making any more or producing hard copies.
Meh. I'm fine with adventure modules in PDF... read through and mine for ideas... but I bought a bunch of their monographs in hard copy that were settings or sourcebooks. Witchcraft, Classic Fantasy, Aces High... etc. I generally prefer having that sort of stuff as an actual book.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bobloblah on November 13, 2015, 09:39:02 AM
What are the big differences between the Design Mechanism's RQ6 and RuneQuest 2nd? I mean, if someone, hypothetically speaking of course, owned RQ6, why would they consider RQ2?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: ZWEIHÄNDER on November 13, 2015, 12:55:24 PM
Say what you will about Chaosium's RQ2, but ugh, the original cover...
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: soltakss on November 13, 2015, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;864207
Say what you will about Chaosium's RQ2, but ugh, the original cover...


I prefer the other one, the blue cover with a slightly different warrioress/draconic combat.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 13, 2015, 01:52:23 PM
Quote from: P&P;864117
Thank goodness, my old softcover copy is physically disintegrating.
Clear packing tape. Keeping my RQ2 cover intact for 35 years.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: estar on November 13, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: Bobloblah;864182
What are the big differences between the Design Mechanism's RQ6 and RuneQuest 2nd? I mean, if someone, hypothetically speaking of course, owned RQ6, why would they consider RQ2?


It Runequest but with a distinct Gloranthan feel. Along with specific rules quirks that add to ambiance of using the rules for a fantasy campaign. For example amputation of limbs is more common with RQ2 than other system that I played.  

While RQ6 is the product of many years of refinement that made the d100/BRP/Runequest system readily adaptable to many styles of fantasy.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;864207
Say what you will about Chaosium's RQ2, but ugh, the original cover...
Really? You don't care for it?
Now THAT might be partially nostalgia for me... but I think I can put that element aside and say that I still quite like that cover. The RQ6 version is technically better... but I find I'm often fond of rougher art that displays more heart and enthusiasm.
One of the reasons Larry Elmore leaves me cold but Errol Otus's work always thrills me.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Doughdee222 on November 13, 2015, 03:10:05 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864226
Really? You don't care for it?
Now THAT might be partially nostalgia for me... but I think I can put that element aside and say that I still quite like that cover. The RQ6 version is technically better... but I find I'm often fond of rougher art that displays more heart and enthusiasm.
One of the reasons Larry Elmore leaves me cold but Errol Otus's work always thrills me.



You know, I've always felt that way too. Sure, I like Elmore, but Erol Otus's artwork always felt more... I dunno, realistic, or lived in; like everything was aged and well used. It is more thrilling. Perhaps my favorite D&D artist.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Baulderstone on November 13, 2015, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;864146
I could swear that a friend of mine had a hardcover of RQ2. I remember that because I wondered that it even had a dustjacket, something I had never seen on an RPG book before.


Edit: Good to see that Baulderstone knows that edition as well. I was not dreaming.


The hardcover is very well made. My copy is clearly used and has a little battle damage to the cover, but the stitched binding is still holding strong. It's one of the few collector's item books that I really have no concerns about using in play. It will probably outlast me.

Quote from: Simlasa;864148
Oh! Good! For some reason I was under the impression they'd pulled it in anticipation of the new Glorantha-added version... which, now that I think about it, makes no sense.
So many other things... Chaosium monographs, BRP stuff... all the BRP stuff Alephtar did... have been yanked, sold-out, nullified.


It's understandable. There is a lot in flux at the moment. I'm still hoping Chaosium changes course and lets it continue to be produced. Going with a Glorantha only core book is not what I want at all, even though I like Glorantha.

Quote from: Simlasa;864226
Really? You don't care for it?
Now THAT might be partially nostalgia for me... but I think I can put that element aside and say that I still quite like that cover. The RQ6 version is technically better... but I find I'm often fond of rougher art that displays more heart and enthusiasm.
One of the reasons Larry Elmore leaves me cold but Errol Otus's work always thrills me.


Quote from: Doughdee222;864231
You know, I've always felt that way too. Sure, I like Elmore, but Erol Otus's artwork always felt more... I dunno, realistic, or lived in; like everything was aged and well used. It is more thrilling. Perhaps my favorite D&D artist.


I like both the RQ 2 and 5 covers for different reasons.

I preferred Elmore when I was a kid, but his stuff doesn't do much for me anymore. It might partly be that I dabble in art myself now. A lot of Elmore's stuff is just a painting of a model standing around in fantasy dress with a nice landscape in the background. It's well-done, but it doesn't take my imagination anywhere. Otus has a strange psychedelic vibe.

Basically, if I were to wander into a dungeon that came to life from an Elmore illustration, I don't think I would see anything that would surprise me. Walking into an Otus dungeon would be a strange and terrifying place.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Christopher Brady on November 13, 2015, 06:32:46 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864143
And see, I totally disagree with what seem to be your assumptions that new is automatically better.


Automatically?  No.  But often, the intent is there to improve what's there.  To make the item better.  And yet, gamers assume that new is automatically worse.

This saddens me.  Simply because no one ever gives something new a chance.  Maybe it's not to your taste, or maybe not all of it, but something in it is interesting.  But very few gamers (and this IS a blanket statement, I apologize, but it's just my perception) ever do more than dismiss the new, if the old is an option.

And this very thread proves it to me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure RQ2 is (or was) an awesome game, but to shut out the potential of something refined just because it's new, that's sad to me.

YMMV, I guess.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: David Johansen on November 13, 2015, 06:38:39 PM
This thread prompted me to go looking for my old soft back in the RuneQuest 3 box.

It wasn't there :(

I wonder what happened to it.

Looks like I'm in the market for the reprint.

If I'd kept half the stuff I got rid of over the years...

But I never know which half to keep.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 13, 2015, 07:15:31 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864279
Automatically?  No.  But often, the intent is there to improve what's there.  To make the item better.  And yet, gamers assume that new is automatically worse.
Who assumed that? Where? I've bought, read and played RQ6. It's a good game. That being said it DID change some things that I preferred the earlier versions of... such as how XP works.
From what I've seen new editions of games will change things... but how often those are honest 'fixes' of actual ills... versus changes for the sake of driving sales of a new product?... or appealing to the audience of some other game that seems to be selling better? What one person sees as a 'fix' another might see as a mistake... it can be very subjective.

Also, it's very common among BRP fans to pick and choose elements from across the various versions/incarnations... there's been very little of anything resembling the 'editions wars' that some other games have suffered. The closest might be the rumbles over the new edition of CoC, but even that is minor in comparison.

Quote
But very few gamers (and this IS a blanket statement, I apologize, but it's just my perception) ever do more than dismiss the new, if the old is an option.
I don't think it's so much dismissing 'the new' as not wanting to move beyond what is already familiar and comfortable... what works for them.
But that's just human nature, IME.
Is there anything really WRONG with that? Especially with game rules, which I increasingly think are the least important element in determining what happens at the table.
Not that it doesn't annoy me that there's not a wider variety of games in play around here.
I wish the Pathfinder group I Play with would change over to 5e or some OSR version of D&D... or Traveller... try something new (to them)... but I fall short of saying they 'should'.

Quote
And this very thread proves it to me.
How? Where? I don't see anyone decrying RQ6 merely because it is 'new'... the most commonly stated reason is that it is perceived as being a heavier rules system. This would imply people have at least looked into it, not written it off arbitrarily as you suggest.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 13, 2015, 08:35:35 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864284
Who assumed that? Where?...
Yeah, pretty much everything Simlasa said.

Personally I switched to running Honor+Intrigue in the summer of 2012. Its a game that was first published in 2012. Its unconnected to any other system I'd ever played or run. So clearly I'm willing to switch systems.

The primary reason I switched was that H+I handled swashbuckling duels in a way that none of the other systems I'd used did. A way that seemed much better suited for running duels like those in an Errol Flynn movie, the Lester 1974 Three Musketeers, the clockpunkish 2011 Three Musketeers, or the BBC TV show The Musketeers. I think it would also do a better job of handling a Star Wars Lightsaber duel than did WEG Star Wars D6. So I started running that system because it did something I fond interesting that other systems I was familiar with didn't do.

On the other hand, I like RQ2. Its a leaner game both in page count and in rules details than RQ3 or RQ6. Which makes it easier to relearn and to teach to new players. If I were to run Runequest today, I'd lean towards something leaner and simpler than what I would have used 30 years ago. So RQ2 would fit that perfectly. And neither RQ3 nor, so far as I've seen, RQ6 does something that interests me all that much that other systems don't do.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Baulderstone on November 14, 2015, 12:59:35 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864279
Automatically?  No.  But often, the intent is there to improve what's there.  To make the item better.  And yet, gamers assume that new is automatically worse.

This saddens me.  Simply because no one ever gives something new a chance.  Maybe it's not to your taste, or maybe not all of it, but something in it is interesting.  But very few gamers (and this IS a blanket statement, I apologize, but it's just my perception) ever do more than dismiss the new, if the old is an option.


No one ever gives something new a chance? Isn't the default way to boost sales in the RPG market to put out a new edition because new core books are always the biggest sellers? Seems plenty of people are ready to hitch a ride on-board new editions.

To be more specific, RQ 6 has been very successful, successful enough that Chaosium is taking it in-house and making it the basis for the new BRP essential rule set.

I'm running my next game using RQ 6. That doesn't mean I don't like having RQ 2, which contains a lot of valuable things that I can harvest for my RQ 6 game.

Quote from: Simlasa;864284
Also, it's very common among BRP fans to pick and choose elements from across the various versions/incarnations... there's been very little of anything resembling the 'editions wars' that some other games have suffered. The closest might be the rumbles over the new edition of CoC, but even that is minor in comparison.


This. I hang out BRP Central, and while people there all tend to lean towards one variant or another, it's a pretty chill scene with a lot of love for both old and new products.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 14, 2015, 03:44:13 AM
My understanding of the situation, which has yet to be fully confirmed as people are still working out details etc, is that the new Chaosium will be taking a multiple headed approach to RuneQuest/BRP:

1) A "Classic" Reprint of RuneQuest 2 will indeed come out, with a few tweaks. This will probably be in line with the other Classic Glorantha releases and be part of the 50th Anniversary celebrations.

2) A new edition of RuneQuest, just called "RuneQuest" but based on the RuneQuest 6 rules, will be released next year and become the modern standard RQ game. It will be based in Glorantha and hopefully will feature the same layout and physical design we saw in Guide to Glorantha and HeroQuest: Glorantha. This has yet to be confirmed but it would make sense.

3) BRP Essentials will be released as a 32 Page book, with alternative games and settings based on it. Indeed, it's been suggested that these rules may make their way into alternative releases so that they can be used standalone. Mythic Iceland is already mooted, while The Design Mechanism (who designed RQ6) is also suggesting a line of future titles that would also feature these rules.

4) RQ6 as in it's current form and the BRP Gold book will be discontinued, but will still be readily available on PDF and possibly POD.

For me, it's an exciting time to be a RuneQuest fan.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: artikid on November 14, 2015, 05:10:28 AM
I'll probably blow some money on this, and talking of Chaosium reprints...

(http://sorcererundermountain.d101games.com/files/2011/01/stormbringer_rpg_gw.jpg)

That would be awesome too
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 14, 2015, 06:14:44 AM
Stormbringer is a cat in hell's chance of returning for Chaosium, bluntly....
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: artikid on November 14, 2015, 06:36:21 AM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864345
Stormbringer is a cat in hell's chance of returning for Chaosium, bluntly....

I know that MM is disgruntled with the way Chaosium dealt with him and his IP... but a man can dream, right?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: nDervish on November 14, 2015, 06:46:49 AM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864339
3) BRP Essentials will be released as a 32 Page book, with alternative games and settings based on it. Indeed, it's been suggested that these rules may make their way into alternative releases so that they can be used standalone. Mythic Iceland is already mooted, while The Design Mechanism (who designed RQ6) is also suggesting a line of future titles that would also feature these rules.


Minor correction here:  "RuneQuest Gateway" will not be based on BRP Essentials, but will instead be a pared-down version of RQ6.  (I can't find the post to reference it, but that info came straight from Loz.)

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to get RQ6 into that page count...
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Phillip on November 14, 2015, 04:01:23 PM
That's nice. I remember the old hardbound edition sold in book stores did not have the errata incorporated in any form. (It's become mighty rare, too, so a more durable hard cover version this time would be another reason to buy even if old paper-bound volumes are already at hand and getting wear and tear.)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 14, 2015, 05:32:48 PM
Quote from: artikid;864346
I know that MM is disgruntled with the way Chaosium dealt with him and his IP... but a man can dream, right?


Do have a check out of the Luther Arkwright game for RQ6. It's not Swords and Sorcery (more alternative worlds/steampunk) but it's very Moorecockian. The Graphic Novel also has an intro penned by Moorecock.

I have asked to see it being expanded into a standalone book which, who knows, may end up happening with the shift around.

In some ways I actually prefer Luther Arkwright to Stormbringer/Elric on the grounds that there are plenty of other dark S&S RPGs out there now - indeed, you could use a D&D Warlock and get pretty much the same deal these days. In the case of Chaosium, they already have RQ as their branded S&S setting.

What Luther Arkwright does is offer a new genre to the mix, that is clearly different to RQ and CoC, but has just as much depth and resonance as either. It's an adult sci-fi setting with a bit of twisted humour. Like Doctor Who on an absinthe bender.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 14, 2015, 05:34:45 PM
Quote from: nDervish;864348
Minor correction here:  "RuneQuest Gateway" will not be based on BRP Essentials, but will instead be a pared-down version of RQ6.  (I can't find the post to reference it, but that info came straight from Loz.)

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to get RQ6 into that page count...


I did notice the moniker 'RuneQuest Gateway" being used. My understanding was that 'BRP Essentials' was also going to be a pared down version of RQ6 - maybe the just changed the name to avoid confusion.

I'm confused.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 14, 2015, 05:45:55 PM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864432
What Luther Arkwright does is offer a new genre to the mix, that is clearly different to RQ and CoC, but has just as much depth and resonance as either. It's an adult sci-fi setting with a bit of twisted humour. Like Doctor Who on an absinthe bender.
It's a great setting... though I see it as more Jerry Cornelius (as an aspect of the Eternal Champion) than Dr. Who.
I can't see myself using it as is but it's got most everything I need to run an Airtight Garage-ish campaign.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Loz on November 14, 2015, 06:03:18 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864436
It's a great setting... though I see it as more Jerry Cornelius (as an aspect of the Eternal Champion) than Dr. Who.
I can't see myself using it as is but it's got most everything I need to run an Airtight Garage-ish campaign.


My Arkwright one-shot for GenCon has The Doctor, Arkwright, Cornelius, John Steed and Emma Peel as pre-gens for the players.

Huge amounts of fun.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: RosenMcStern on November 14, 2015, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864148
So many other things... Chaosium monographs, BRP stuff... all the BRP stuff Alephtar did... have been yanked, sold-out, nullified.


It is not dead what can eternal lie. And in Strange Aeons...

At least some of that stuff will see the light of the day again. And waiting for Strange Aeons to come will not be necessary :)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: kosmos1214 on November 14, 2015, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: Baulderstone;864256
The hardcover is very well made. My copy is clearly used and has a little battle damage to the cover, but the stitched binding is still holding strong. It's one of the few collector's item books that I really have no concerns about using in play. It will probably outlast me.



It's understandable. There is a lot in flux at the moment. I'm still hoping Chaosium changes course and lets it continue to be produced. Going with a Glorantha only core book is not what I want at all, even though I like Glorantha.





I like both the RQ 2 and 5 covers for different reasons.

I preferred Elmore when I was a kid, but his stuff doesn't do much for me anymore. It might partly be that I dabble in art myself now. A lot of Elmore's stuff is just a painting of a model standing around in fantasy dress with a nice landscape in the background. It's well-done, but it doesn't take my imagination anywhere. Otus has a strange psychedelic vibe.

Basically, if I were to wander into a dungeon that came to life from an Elmore illustration, I don't think I would see anything that would surprise me. Walking into an Otus dungeon would be a strange and terrifying place.
yah walking in to an Otus dungeon would be like walking in to a nightmare though personally i prefer Elmore's art though that may simply be that i have a weakness to that art style

edit also i adore kōsuke fujishima's work
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 14, 2015, 06:43:24 PM
Quote from: Loz;864441
My Arkwright one-shot for GenCon has The Doctor, Arkwright, Cornelius, John Steed and Emma Peel as pre-gens for the players.

Huge amounts of fun.
Oh! Yeah, later episodes of The Avengers definitely have that flavor... I can see Steed and Peel as agents of Zero Zero.

Quote from: RosenMcStern;864443
At least some of that stuff will see the light of the day again.
Might Dragon Lines be among them?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 14, 2015, 09:49:49 PM
Quote from: nDervish;864348
Minor correction here:  "RuneQuest Gateway" will not be based on BRP Essentials, but will instead be a pared-down version of RQ6.  (I can't find the post to reference it, but that info came straight from Loz.)

It'll be interesting to see how they manage to get RQ6 into that page count...


I thought BRP Essentials was also to be based on RQ6. Is RuneQuest Gateway just the new name for BRP Essentials?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 14, 2015, 10:16:15 PM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864476
Is RuneQuest Gateway just the new name for BRP Essentials?
In the past I've always took 'Runequest Gateway' to be the various non-Glorantha settings that used the core rules of RQ. Like, nowadays, Mythic Britain and Luther Arkwright.
I've no idea if I've been accurate in that assumption... but that would make for an appropriate name for a rulebook aimed at fueling a wide variety of genres/settings.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Phillip on November 14, 2015, 10:51:51 PM
Non-Gloranthan is what "RuneQuest Gateway" meant back in the day, but people sometimes find new uses for old trademarks.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 14, 2015, 10:58:19 PM
Quote from: Phillip;864491
Non-Gloranthan is what "RuneQuest Gateway" meant back in the day, but people sometimes find new uses for old trademarks.
I wasn't even sure I was correct about its old meaning... but if it's meant to fuel future non-Gloranthan stuff... like Chronicles of Future Earth (I hope that one is still on the docket) then it seems to be carrying pretty much the same intent... since core Runequest is going to be the Glorantha stuff... yes? no?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Akrasia on November 15, 2015, 03:10:20 AM
I'm glad to hear about the reprint, even though my hardcover copy of RQ2 is still in surprisingly good shape.

And it's always gratifying to learn that others share my aesthetic sensibilities, namely, recognize the superiority of Otus over Elmore.

Quote from: Bren;864302

On the other hand, I like RQ2. ...neither RQ3 nor, so far as I've seen, RQ6 does something that interests me all that much that other systems don't do.


Well, RQ6 has special effects (combat manoeuvres), which make its combat system superior to all others.  (Of course, a great combat system is not necessary for all games, e.g. Call of Cthuhlu, but for those games in which combat is important, RQ6 reigns supreme.)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: TrippyHippy on November 15, 2015, 04:29:23 AM
Quote from: Akrasia;864515
Well, RQ6 has special effects (combat manoeuvres), which make its combat system superior to all others.  (Of course, a great combat system is not necessary for all games, e.g. Call of Cthuhlu, but for those games in which combat is important, RQ6 reigns supreme.)


To elaborate on this, it's one of the few RPGs out there that actually allows a player to develop their own style of combat. So yes, it's a major feature of the game system.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: nDervish on November 15, 2015, 07:17:33 AM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864476
I thought BRP Essentials was also to be based on RQ6. Is RuneQuest Gateway just the new name for BRP Essentials?


I am expecting "RQ Gateway" to be the replacement for "BRP Essentials", but I haven't seen any official statement directly addressing that.  This expectation is based primarily on the history of "RQ Essentials" meaning "non-Glorantha with RQ rules" and on the current list of forums at BRP Central, which places "RQ Gateway" on the same level as "Basic Roleplaying", "Glorantha", and "Magic World", but has no mention of "BRP Essentials".

But, yes, you're right - Loz's statement that I mentioned in my last post actually did say "BRP Essentials", IIRC, rather than "RQ Gateway".  I'm just assuming that both names will end up referring to the same thing.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Hermes Serpent on November 15, 2015, 08:34:59 AM
RQ Essentials is currently the name of the cut down version of RQ6 that is PWYW available from TDM and as a POD book.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Larsdangly on November 15, 2015, 11:44:13 AM
Quote from: Akrasia;864515
I'm glad to hear about the reprint, even though my hardcover copy of RQ2 is still in surprisingly good shape.

..


Mine too! That old red leather bound book is F'ing bomb proof.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Claudius on November 15, 2015, 03:05:52 PM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864476
Is RuneQuest Gateway just the new name for BRP Essentials?

If I recall correctly, RuneQuest Gateway was a license to publish third party supplements for RQ6, like for example Alephtar Games' Stupor Mundi. I don't know if now it means something else.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: RosenMcStern on November 15, 2015, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864452
Might Dragon Lines be among them?


Perhaps, but not in another D100 incarnation. ;)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: AsenRG on November 15, 2015, 06:11:22 PM
Quote from: TrippyHippy;864432
Do have a check out of the Luther Arkwright game for RQ6. It's not Swords and Sorcery (more alternative worlds/steampunk) but it's very Moorecockian. The Graphic Novel also has an intro penned by Moorecock.

I have asked to see it being expanded into a standalone book which, who knows, may end up happening with the shift around.

In some ways I actually prefer Luther Arkwright to Stormbringer/Elric on the grounds that there are plenty of other dark S&S RPGs out there now - indeed, you could use a D&D Warlock and get pretty much the same deal these days. In the case of Chaosium, they already have RQ as their branded S&S setting.

What Luther Arkwright does is offer a new genre to the mix, that is clearly different to RQ and CoC, but has just as much depth and resonance as either. It's an adult sci-fi setting with a bit of twisted humour. Like Doctor Who on an absinthe bender.

OK, you sold me on Luther Arkwright:). Congratulations!
I'll check it when it comes time for my RPG spending spree later this month;).
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bilharzia on November 15, 2015, 06:26:43 PM
Quote from: Bobloblah;864182
What are the big differences between the Design Mechanism's RQ6 and RuneQuest 2nd? I mean, if someone, hypothetically speaking of course, owned RQ6, why would they consider RQ2?


I'm not sure you would get much out of the RQ2 ruleset if you have come to RuneQuest for the first time from RQ6, apart from curiosity and old typesetting, maybe some old typos? The RQ2 rules didn't have that much Glorantha setting beyond the magic system and the creatures, the setting came largely in the supplements. Personally I wouldn't want to go back to RQ2 for the rules because I don't know why I would want to 'forget' the new parts of RQ6 that I like.

There's an association with new rules with bloat that I don't think is true with RQ6, you can see it in RQ3 which had parts which didn't work very well like sorcery, fatigue, cultural backgrounds, all of which were addressed in RQ6. RQ2 has some oddities which I'm sure some people like but which seem like munkin-fodder to me - escalating Battle Magic, Blade Venom and slugathon-combat, which again RQ6 handles much better, especially with special effects. The idea that an older ruleset is by it's nature streamlined and therefore faster and easier to play doesn't pan out, combat in the new RQ is more interesting and plays out faster.

A nostalgia reprint is a nice idea but it appeals to the record collector in me not the player.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 15, 2015, 07:21:58 PM
Quote from: Bilharzia;864631
...which again RQ6 handles much better, especially with special effects.
Sounds very cinematic.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: 3rik on November 16, 2015, 01:40:10 AM
Apart from the Glorantha content, how does RQ2 compare to OpenQuest?
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: nDervish on November 16, 2015, 05:59:43 AM
Quote from: Bren;864639
Sounds very cinematic.


Not particularly, or at least it doesn't trip my "cinematic" detectors.  The RQ6 combat special effects are things like Trip, Impale, Bleed, Open/Close Range, Choose Hit Location, and so on.  The sort of things that, in most RPGs, would be a "combat maneuver" that you attempt to pull off in exchange for a penalty to hit.  RQ6 turns that around and, if you hit with a higher degree of success than the defense (critical > success > failure > fumble), you get to pick one special effect per degree difference.  If the defender gets a higher degree of success, then there are also defensive special effects.  (One of the defensive SEs is Blind Opponent, which covers the old "throw sand in their eyes" trick, but that's as cinematic as they get.)
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 16, 2015, 09:12:15 AM
Quote from: nDervish;864702
Not particularly, or at least it doesn't trip my "cinematic" detectors.  The RQ6 combat special effects are things like Trip, Impale, Bleed, Open/Close Range, Choose Hit Location, and so on.  The sort of things that, in most RPGs, would be a "combat maneuver" that you attempt to pull off in exchange for a penalty to hit.  RQ6 turns that around and, if you hit with a higher degree of success than the defense (critical > success > failure > fumble), you get to pick one special effect per degree difference.  If the defender gets a higher degree of success, then there are also defensive special effects.  (One of the defensive SEs is Blind Opponent, which covers the old "throw sand in their eyes" trick, but that's as cinematic as they get.)
I don't think I want to change from 'declare action, roll for outcome' to 'roll for outcome, then declare action', but your correct that it doesn't sound cinematic. Thanks for explaining.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: crkrueger on November 16, 2015, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864138
I think I'm the only one saddened by this.  Instead of making a new car, with better features and maybe better gas mileage, this hobby has got to be the only one in which trotting out the old Model T is praised.

Gamers hate change.  This is what threads like this tells me.

If it's not how was back in the day, it's crap.

Yeah, or realize that game design is not mechanical technology/science and not be the guy who laments still printing Shakespeare today since we have Sam Elliott and Tom Stoppard.

Whichever :D
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 16, 2015, 11:00:37 AM
Quote from: CRKrueger;864722
Whichever :D
Bit of both.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: P&P on November 16, 2015, 12:29:08 PM
RPG companies keep the same game name even when it's different rules written by different people, which is like marketing Metallica as "Chuck Berry 6".

And then when they re-release a Chuck Berry album you always get someone who goes, "Why don't you just listen to Metallica?"
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Christopher Brady on November 16, 2015, 02:28:27 PM
Quote from: P&P;864732
RPG companies keep the same game name even when it's different rules written by different people, which is like marketing Metallica as "Chuck Berry 6".

And then when they re-release a Chuck Berry album you always get someone who goes, "Why don't you just listen to Metallica?"


That's slightly incorrect.  It's a complete reprint, as if Metillica takes -to use your example- a Chuck Berry album and simply represses the LP.

It's not bringing back RQ2 that saddens me, it's that people are giving the impression that they don't think any other edition should have existed because RQ2 is the pinnacle of gaming perfection.  Or something similar.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Simlasa on November 16, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864744
It's not bringing back RQ2 that saddens me, it's that people are giving the impression that they don't think any other edition should have existed because RQ2 is the pinnacle of gaming perfection.  Or something similar.
And again, I think that's all your own imaginative creation, because I don't see anyone saying anything like that.
There are some things from RQ6 I'd happily adopt... but other things from RQ2 I'd keep.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 16, 2015, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864750
And again, I think that's all your own imaginative creation, because I don't see anyone saying anything like that.
There are some things from RQ6 I'd happily adopt... but other things from RQ2 I'd keep.
Christopher is pissy today because someone kicked his dog.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: Bren on November 16, 2015, 03:09:34 PM
Quote from: Simlasa;864750
And again, I think that's all your own imaginative creation, because I don't see anyone saying anything like that.
There are some things from RQ6 I'd happily adopt... but other things from RQ2 I'd keep.
I think Christopher is pissy today because someone kicked his dog (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=864754&postcount=258).
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: AsenRG on November 17, 2015, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: nDervish;864702
Not particularly, or at least it doesn't trip my "cinematic" detectors.  The RQ6 combat special effects are things like Trip, Impale, Bleed, Open/Close Range, Choose Hit Location, and so on.  The sort of things that, in most RPGs, would be a "combat maneuver" that you attempt to pull off in exchange for a penalty to hit.  RQ6 turns that around and, if you hit with a higher degree of success than the defense (critical > success > failure > fumble), you get to pick one special effect per degree difference.  If the defender gets a higher degree of success, then there are also defensive special effects.  (One of the defensive SEs is Blind Opponent, which covers the old "throw sand in their eyes" trick, but that's as cinematic as they get.)


Just as a note,I've never seen "Blind opponent" described as "sand in the eyes". Usually it's using the second hand to gouge.
Don't know if that makes it more or even less cinematic.
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: nDervish on November 18, 2015, 05:47:40 AM
Quote from: AsenRG;864879
Just as a note,I've never seen "Blind opponent" described as "sand in the eyes". Usually it's using the second hand to gouge.


I was going by the description of the SE on RQ6 p.145:  "On a critical the defender briefly blinds his opponent by throwing sand, reflecting sunlight off his shield, or some other tactic which briefly interferes with the attacker’s vision."  Considering that it only blinds them for 1d3 turns[1], I'd expect an eye gouge to be something more severe than just a Blind Opponent SE, although I don't see any other SEs (offensive or defensive) that seem like a solid fit, either.


[1] For those unfamiliar with RQ6, an RQ6 "turn" is shorter than a "round", with most PCs potentially having 2-3 turns per 5-second round (although they get fewer if they parry or take other reactive actions).
Title: Chaosium to reprint RQ2
Post by: The Butcher on November 18, 2015, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;864744
It's not bringing back RQ2 that saddens me, it's that people are giving the impression that they don't think any other edition should have existed because RQ2 is the pinnacle of gaming perfection.  Or something similar.


People are thinking this about fucking Exalted. I thank my lucky stars some people, having decided to go down the One True Game road, have chosen better games. ;)

I kid because I love.