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Author Topic: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form  (Read 3036 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2021, 08:52:10 PM »
Money is referenced fairly regularly in the original series.  There was an episode when a supporting character (e.g., not Sulu, Scotty, etc.) had the helm and he remarked that he "bet Credits to navy beans" that an enemy was about to do something.  The fellow who sold tribbles, in "The Trouble With Tribbles" had a considerable bar tab he'd run up.  As mentioned, McCoy bribed someone credits to smuggle him to the Genesis Planet, in ST3.  The list goes on and on.

Thats the thing. Its not money in the normal sense of someone minting the stuff and its in limited quantities. Its something you get for, well, doing stuff. Exactly what credits though is up for debate but they are not actual coin. At least not usually. TNG in particular suffered from writers changing stuff, because. So odds are somewhere in some episode someone IS paying with coin.

Outside the Federation all bets are off. Barter seems the main 'coin' of the realm. Find what someone wants in order to get something you want.

Money is a fixed unit of exchange to facilitate trading.

Well before coins we had money, sea-shells, cacao, feathers filled with gold dust just to name a few examples.

If we phased out all printed/minted money in favor of plastic debit cards ... Would that mean we no longer use money?

If we phased out all credit cards in favor of the chips implanted in our arms, would that mean we no longer have a credit system?

In México we are so smart we now use plastic bills, money made of plastic, harder to counterfeit, but it's neither coin nor paper, is it not money?

And all this is very relevant in RPGs, because I have seen time and again the missunderstanding of what constitutes both money and progres in futuristic settings:

Progress isn't going back to an inferior form of trading we call bartering. You want some eggs but need to sell a cow, I want some pork but only have eggs and the stuff only gets more complicated.

How many chickens to buy a cow? How many pigs? How many eggs to buy a quarter of milk? And if it's butter?

Money is easier to trade, to carry and thus much superior and evolved than bartering.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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Shasarak

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2021, 08:54:07 PM »
The Very first line is "The indomitable Human Empire vaulted itself majestically dick-first into space."

This sounds like the perfect setting for a roleplaying game: two evil alien races and a super computer to fight against?

Sign me up to launch dick first into space.


Money used to exist in TOS and was phased out by TNG because most writers don’t understand economics.

If money is phased out in TNG then how come the Command staff spend so much time playing Poker?
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2021, 08:55:08 PM »
Writers in TNG got rid of money because they didn’t realize it was a useful tool for trade, and instead misattributed the love of money to the idea of miney at all. Its very silly.
I remember how in DS9 they had to run around trading stuff because the federation lacks a centralized currency l.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2021, 08:56:32 PM »
If money is phased out in TNG then how come the Command staff spend so much time playing Poker?
Because its fun. They don’t play for money there. At most for dares ir the like.

GeekyBugle

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2021, 08:58:49 PM »
If money is phased out in TNG then how come the Command staff spend so much time playing Poker?
Because its fun. They don’t play for money there. At most for dares ir the like.

Strip Poker in Spaaaaaaaaaace!
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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Pat

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2021, 09:03:06 PM »
Money is referenced fairly regularly in the original series.  There was an episode when a supporting character (e.g., not Sulu, Scotty, etc.) had the helm and he remarked that he "bet Credits to navy beans" that an enemy was about to do something.  The fellow who sold tribbles, in "The Trouble With Tribbles" had a considerable bar tab he'd run up.  As mentioned, McCoy bribed someone credits to smuggle him to the Genesis Planet, in ST3.  The list goes on and on.

Thats the thing. Its not money in the normal sense of someone minting the stuff and its in limited quantities. Its something you get for, well, doing stuff. Exactly what credits though is up for debate but they are not actual coin. At least not usually. TNG in particular suffered from writers changing stuff, because. So odds are somewhere in some episode someone IS paying with coin.

Outside the Federation all bets are off. Barter seems the main 'coin' of the realm. Find what someone wants in order to get something you want.
So they reverted to a barter society, requiring people to find out exactly what a specific person wants and then arranging a chain of trades to get it, in order to get the thing they desired. Instead of having a universal standard of value which can serve as a replacement for all those intermediate transactions, and allows people with disparate goods and needs to make direct exchanges even though neither has the specific good the other wants.

That sounds like the opposite of an improvement.

Autumnborn

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2021, 09:17:58 PM »


The Thren look like they are stolen from a western porn artist.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 09:45:00 PM by Autumnborn »

VisionStorm

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2021, 09:21:38 PM »
"funded in five hours" motherfucker you only asked for 5K

Another crowdfunded woke product that will never been fulfilled.

Someone tell 4chan, because this looks like fucking comedy gold. I haven't laughed this hard since Thirsty Sword Lesbians!

I thought this was about Thirsty Sword Lesbians when I started reading the OP, then suddenly realized someone else had had the glorious idea of doing a silly qUeEr space RPG, only more maniacal in its conception.

Are the swords thirsty for lesbians? are the swords thirsty and lesbians? are the lesbians thirsty for swords? I'm confused.

I have no clue what they're even on about with that title, but last checked lesbians aren't normally thirsty for swords. Though, now I'm told that not liking swords is transphobic so who knows?

Enjoy the past hilarity: https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/thirsty-sword-lesbians-no-really/

jeff37923

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2021, 10:37:46 PM »
Considering this thread and the Eclipse Phase one, I have to ask:

If you are playing a game because you like and support the politics of the game's setting, are you playing the game or just masturbating to the political fantasy and claiming it is activism?

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2021, 10:57:03 PM »
Guys I say don't let these games rub you the wrong way and just ignore them. These are not games that will be played. SJWs will play 5e like everybody else and bitch about pronouns and lack of wheelchair access. These socjus games are just made to spite people like us and get a rise out of us.

So just let them roll pass you like dew on a leaf. Even laughing at this crap is giving it too much credit.

Torque2100

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2021, 09:09:43 AM »
Guys I say don't let these games rub you the wrong way and just ignore them. These are not games that will be played. SJWs will play 5e like everybody else and bitch about pronouns and lack of wheelchair access. These socjus games are just made to spite people like us and get a rise out of us.

So just let them roll pass you like dew on a leaf. Even laughing at this crap is giving it too much credit.


Normally I would advocate this approach as well, but Changed Stars is shaping up to be such a hilarious trainwreck that I can't help but break out the Popcorn.

This is like F.A.T.A.L. levels of authorial tone-deafness.

This Guy

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2021, 01:28:07 PM »
Considering this thread and the Eclipse Phase one, I have to ask:

If you are playing a game because you like and support the politics of the game's setting, are you playing the game or just masturbating to the political fantasy and claiming it is activism?

the game is that I masturbate to the political fantasy. it's a good game, always has a great climax with a depressing falling action

I don't want to play with you.

Wntrlnd

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2021, 09:11:43 AM »
Considering this thread and the Eclipse Phase one, I have to ask:

If you are playing a game because you like and support the politics of the game's setting, are you playing the game or just masturbating to the political fantasy and claiming it is activism?

Personally I like playing in games where the setting have bad stuff you can fight and oppose.

It's not like I play Shadowrun or Cyberpunk because being a merc living outside of society and the thumb of the corporate overlords is good.
It's not because I think slavery and rape is good that I want slavery to be a part of the medieval/postapocalyptic world setting I am making.
The reason why you are rebels in Star wars is because while the empire promises Law and Order they also take away your Freedom.
You can't win (in the long run) against the dark forces in Ravenloft or Call of Cthulhu, but you sure can try.

You see something you disagree with it, and you (or rather your character) wants change

But these people make settings where they already live in their perfect worlds, their only struggle is to oppose those that try to change it.

Congrats, now they are the conservatives trying to keep the status quo.



Lynn

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2021, 12:53:30 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.

I think that's the only way to really make post TOS work. Maybe there's an exchange rate built around a bunch of things that are in high demand but are not able to be replicated, or an energy based 'mega-credit' or the like. Even in a society in which you can replicate an unlimited number of blueberry muffins, you only have one original Mona Lisa, a limited number of houses/lots on a California skyline, and one Sisko restaurant.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2021, 12:57:15 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.

I think that's the only way to really make post TOS work. Maybe there's an exchange rate built around a bunch of things that are in high demand but are not able to be replicated, or an energy based 'mega-credit' or the like. Even in a society in which you can replicate an unlimited number of blueberry muffins, you only have one original Mona Lisa, a limited number of houses/lots on a California skyline, and one Sisko restaurant.

Many Sci-Fi RPGs already do this, because there will always be scarcity, you might be able to solve it in almost everything, but you can't solve it in everything.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber