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Author Topic: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form  (Read 3042 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2021, 02:42:56 PM »
Sounds like a Sci-fi with history written by the victors that would be both strange and alien for players to interact with.

Dude Star Trek was/is considered commi fantasy where the Federation is basically fascist. It's the backbone of Utopian Sci-fi that all is not perfect even if the original authors intended it to be.

ST is commie fantasy only for commie addled minds. It's capitalistic, meritocratic even with replicators because there's still thing replicators can't replicate.

It's also for individual freedom, free speech and fights against the borg, who ARE the commie wet dream.
Bro they don't even have money in human society and you're projecting capitalist values on them?

Bro they totally have money.

You need to say "in human society" and yet:

The Federation and money

Outside of Earth, money and other forms of currency were still used in the 23rd and 24th century, by the Federation itself, individual Humans, and other Federation species. One form of such currency was the Federation credit.

The Human philanthropist Carter Winston acquired a vast personal fortune during the late 23rd century. (TAS: "The Survivor")

In 2368, a Vulcan master doubled the price of a meditation lamp upon learning that Tuvok and Kathryn Janeway were Starfleet officers. (VOY: "The Gift")

Notably, the crew of the USS Voyager, faced with severe resource limitations after being flung into the Delta Quadrant, treated rations on replicator and holodeck use as currency and traded these among themselves. (VOY: "The Cloud", "Twisted", "Parturition", "Meld", "The Chute")

Bartender Quark had repeated financial interactions with Federation personnel. On numerous occasions, Starfleet officers gambled to win latinum at Quark's, including Julian Bashir, Thomas Riker, and Jadzia Dax. (DS9: "Statistical Probabilities", "Playing God", "Business as Usual", "Change of Heart", "Defiant"; TNG: "Firstborn") His bar also routinely extended credit to its patrons, including Federation citizens and members of Starfleet. (DS9: "Little Green Men"; VOY: "Caretaker") In 2372, he sold Quark's Treasure – a damaged Ferengi shuttle which had belonged to him – for scrap after it was disabled in the Sol system, and was given enough to cover passage back to Deep Space 9. (DS9: "Little Green Men") Later that year, Benjamin Sisko threatened Quark to collect on five years' "back rent" that was unpaid, though the actual motivation behind the threat was not fiscal. (DS9: "Bar Association") Quark later stated that he was in debt to some unnamed Humans, but considered defaulting on them a trivial matter. (DS9: "Body Parts") In 2373, he indirectly caused damage to a cargo bay, and was informed that he would have to bear the burden for the repairs, though it was not clear if this burden was financial in nature. (DS9: "Business as Usual") When Quark rescued Gaila from a Federation starbase after he was arrested on Thalos VI, he had to pay a fine before he could be released. (DS9: "The Magnificent Ferengi")
It was not specified that the fine was owed or paid to Starfleet or the Federation.
Other mentions

    Sometime in the 2250s, Harcourt Fenton Mudd programmed a number of android duplicates of himself with the phrase "if I had any money, I'd be sipping jippers on a beach somewhere." (ST: "The Escape Artist")

    Captain Kirk offered to reimburse a group of miners on Rigel XII for lithium crystals in 2266, but he was rebuffed in favor of bartering for Mudd's women. (TOS: "Mudd's Women")

    In 2285, Leonard McCoy wanted to pay a smuggler to transport him to the Genesis Planet. (Star Trek III: The Search for Spock)

    In 2364, Beverly Crusher bought a roll of cloth at Farpoint Station and had her account on the USS Enterprise-D billed. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint")

    That same year, while playing the role of the title character in a Dixon Hill simulation, Picard stated a rate of $20 a day plus expenses to Jessica Bradley, who was convinced that someone was trying to kill her. She accepted and gave him a "c-note," or $100, as an advance. Later in the simulation, he wished to purchase a newspaper but did not have any money, and was told by the vendor that he could catch him next time. (TNG: "The Big Goodbye")

I was with you up to this part. I don't think a fictional story on a holodeck referencing money means the Federation uses it anymore.

Quote
    In 2366, Jean-Luc Picard purchased a Horga'hn on Risa. (TNG: "Captain's Holiday")

    In 2368, Commander William T. Riker tried to get information out of Amarie. She complimented him on her husband and told him to "drop a few coins" in her jar. He told her that he did not carry any money, but managed to tempt her by teaching her a song. (TNG: "Unification II")

    In 2370, when Lieutenant Worf and his son Alexander Rozhenko visited the Klingon outpost on Maranga IV, Alexander came to Worf asking for money, stating that he could see Molor's head in a box for 50 darseks. Worf replied that the man who told him this was just trying to take his money. (TNG: "Firstborn")

    As of the 24th century, the Bank of Bolias was a major financial institution, and Bolarus IX had a market economy that fluctuated in value. (DS9: "Starship Down", "Who Mourns for Morn?")

Some alien societies still use money. The Ferengi for a notable example of still having currency in a world full of Replicators.

But we have numerous incidents after TOS where the Federation characters declare that they don't use money anymore. I chalk it up to Roddenberry being naieve about currency, Capitalism, and hand waving away exactly how they "don't use money anymore". And subsequent writers scratching their heads and going "What the fuck is this shit?"

But well before that it is established the federation still uses money, they call it credits.

As for "evolving" beyond money... A society that needs to rely on bartering when dealing with other societies can hardly call itself more "evolved".

Just like this "game" can't hardly call itself anything but genocidal porn.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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Pat

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2021, 03:13:24 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.
Are the social credits of dearly beloved leader Xi a type of money?

Ghostmaker

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2021, 03:22:03 PM »
Star Trek has always been terribly, terribly schizophrenic about this sort of thing. Diane Duane's novel Spock's World has perfectly good references to using money (Kirk pays his tab at the tavern and inn he was staying at when the book starts, McCoy remarks on how he signed up for a language course 'on his own dime').

IMO, it got worse in TNG when the writers realized a post-scarcity economy would look very, very different. They really should've spent more time fiddling with that. There's an amusing EU novel where the businessman the Enterprise crew thawed out from cryostorage makes a return; evidently the Federation hired him on because they needed expert advice in dealing in capitalist societies, particularly the Ferengi.

moonsweeper

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2021, 03:22:33 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.
Are the social credits of dearly beloved leader Xi a type of money?

Does it allow you more access to items/places/influence than people with less social credit?
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Rhedyn

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2021, 03:32:18 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.
Are the social credits of dearly beloved leader Xi a type of money?
In socialist circles, reputation base economies are declared capitalism by a different name. Or in other words, rep economies are a hard-right conservative version of socialism.

Pat

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2021, 03:36:44 PM »
Credits ARE money tho. Just imagine all our dearly beloved leaders just stoped printing money altogether and instead of several different currencies we had the earth credit. not paper, not coins but electronically stored in your account. It is still money.
Are the social credits of dearly beloved leader Xi a type of money?

Does it allow you more access to items/places/influence than people with less social credit?
Of course.

VisionStorm

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2021, 03:39:51 PM »
"funded in five hours" motherfucker you only asked for 5K

Another crowdfunded woke product that will never been fulfilled.

Someone tell 4chan, because this looks like fucking comedy gold. I haven't laughed this hard since Thirsty Sword Lesbians!

I thought this was about Thirsty Sword Lesbians when I started reading the OP, then suddenly realized someone else had had the glorious idea of doing a silly qUeEr space RPG, only more maniacal in its conception.

Torque2100

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2021, 03:48:14 PM »
Welp someone told 4chan.

Pass the popcorn.

Ghostmaker

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2021, 05:22:35 PM »
Welp someone told 4chan.

Pass the popcorn.
It wasn't me.

I wish it was me, but it wasn't.

This Guy

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2021, 05:27:14 PM »
"funded in five hours" motherfucker you only asked for 5K

Another crowdfunded woke product that will never been fulfilled.


I got no stats on that but goddamn don't tout your achievement in your ads when you coulda gotten the same result from a payday lender.
I don't want to play with you.

GeekyBugle

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2021, 05:48:10 PM »
"funded in five hours" motherfucker you only asked for 5K

Another crowdfunded woke product that will never been fulfilled.

Someone tell 4chan, because this looks like fucking comedy gold. I haven't laughed this hard since Thirsty Sword Lesbians!

I thought this was about Thirsty Sword Lesbians when I started reading the OP, then suddenly realized someone else had had the glorious idea of doing a silly qUeEr space RPG, only more maniacal in its conception.

Are the swords thirsty for lesbians? are the swords thirsty and lesbians? are the lesbians thirsty for swords? I'm confused.
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjC7-w5KDKNiD-k0tVo1DPw?view_as=subscriber

thedungeondelver

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2021, 06:27:20 PM »
Off topic. But ST and especially TNG ran off a thing called Credits. Credits seemed to be something you got extra for actually doing stuff. Be in working, farming, whatever. Seemed to be mostly used for luxuries from the rare few examples can recall. Its not exactly money. But seems to get spent on stuff.

Dilithium seemed to be another form of almost currency. But barter seemed the main thing going at least in TOS and occasionally in TNG.

As for this, to use BGGs wording,  'game'... Does not surprise me at all.

In fact it reads like its tailr made for outrage marketing by ticking off pretty much every box possible to get people to complain. And here we have a thread. Free Advertising is the name of the game. More people will back it just to see what a train wreck it is.

Money is referenced fairly regularly in the original series.  There was an episode when a supporting character (e.g., not Sulu, Scotty, etc.) had the helm and he remarked that he "bet Credits to navy beans" that an enemy was about to do something.  The fellow who sold tribbles, in "The Trouble With Tribbles" had a considerable bar tab he'd run up.  As mentioned, McCoy bribed someone credits to smuggle him to the Genesis Planet, in ST3.  The list goes on and on.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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thedungeondelver

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2021, 06:30:38 PM »
Welp someone told 4chan.

Pass the popcorn.
It wasn't me.

I wish it was me, but it wasn't.

Their response was pretty tepid tbh.  Now, if /pol/ got ahold of it instead of /tg/...
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion light year across closed universe isn't big enough to encompass just how fucking far 4e is from old school.
- Kyle Aaron
A katana's just a fucking sword, you assholes! - The Shaman

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2021, 06:52:00 PM »
Money used to exist in TOS and was phased out by TNG because most writers don’t understand economics.

Omega

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Re: ChangedStars: Poe's Law in RPG Form
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2021, 08:42:00 PM »
Money is referenced fairly regularly in the original series.  There was an episode when a supporting character (e.g., not Sulu, Scotty, etc.) had the helm and he remarked that he "bet Credits to navy beans" that an enemy was about to do something.  The fellow who sold tribbles, in "The Trouble With Tribbles" had a considerable bar tab he'd run up.  As mentioned, McCoy bribed someone credits to smuggle him to the Genesis Planet, in ST3.  The list goes on and on.

Thats the thing. Its not money in the normal sense of someone minting the stuff and its in limited quantities. Its something you get for, well, doing stuff. Exactly what credits though is up for debate but they are not actual coin. At least not usually. TNG in particular suffered from writers changing stuff, because. So odds are somewhere in some episode someone IS paying with coin.

Outside the Federation all bets are off. Barter seems the main 'coin' of the realm. Find what someone wants in order to get something you want.