Quote from: Warthur;384295The court document is here.

That does not mean the case is dismissed - it just means the court isn't willing to order IMR to pay their creditors any money immediately and wants to see some actual evidence. Next hearing is on the 18th June, which is likely to involve more evidence waved around.

Pretty much. IMR's request for summary dismissal was not granted, the Creditor's request for immediate debt relief was denied. No real surprises there. I was kind of hoping that initial arguments would be made at the initial hearing, but apparently not. Just people showing up to agree to a court date.

-Frank

Any info on what happened on the 18th? I've been following this story since it broke, and as much as I love Shadowrun, I want it out of Catalyst's hands, even if it means no products for a while, because I'd rather it be in the hands of someone remotely trustworthy.

Also, as an aside, thanks Frank, for bringing this to everyone's attention to begin with.

Quote from: MILLANDSON;389152Any info on what happened on the 18th? I've been following this story since it broke, and as much as I love Shadowrun, I want it out of Catalyst's hands, even if it means no products for a while, because I'd rather it be in the hands of someone remotely trustworthy.

Also, as an aside, thanks Frank, for bringing this to everyone's attention to begin with.

It was a pre-trial evidentiary hearing, where the sides submitted evidence and scheduled a proper trial date for open court.
Catalyst wanted the next phase to begin in October. The Creditors wanted the next phase to begin at the end of the month. The Judge set the next phase for August 9th.

Other revelations: Catalyst apparently has over 250 creditors, most of whom are private individuals. Many of the largest creditors are friends and family of Loren Coleman. Posthuman Studios settled out of court with Catalyst, and they now have Eclipse Phase back up for sale on Amazon.

Catalyst made a press release that confirmed that they were continuing to publish Battletech and Shadowrun on a functional extension of the expired license while the negotiations were ongoing. They also claimed to be in "final review" for a license extension, though they also confirmed that neither party (them or Topps) had actually signed anything. They put a really happy face on that announcement.

Meanwhile, Catalyst did a PDF release of Corp Guide using the hasty rewrites of the material that got pulled - except that they also were caught using some of the material that got pulled and they didn't have the right to publish. So there are now two different versions of the PDF: one with material that they didn't have a right to publish and the other without.

-Frank

So now we get to wait until August? Nice...

Are all 250 of those creditors seeking action, or is this just a trial for one of the creditors to get their money back? And when does the licence for Shadowrun run out?

Quote from: MILLANDSON;389287So now we get to wait until August? Nice...

Are all 250 of those creditors seeking action, or is this just a trial for one of the creditors to get their money back? And when does the licence for Shadowrun run out?

This is David Stansel, who is probably Frank's information source, trying to push IMR into involuntary bankruptcy. There are three parties to the petition, but that's all you need for an involuntary bankruptcy petition. If IMR goes bankrupt, the creditors may or may not get paid back -- depends on available funds -- but it definitely enhances Sandstorm's chances of getting the Shadowrun license.

Sandstorm would almost certainly be a better home for Shadowrun. I'd put money on it, in fact.

Barring the outcome of the hearing, I think the license is going to stick with IMR. I'm not quite confident enough to put money on that, but the Catalyst press release concerning the license extension is significant -- more so than some believe. The important thing about press releases involving two companies is that both companies have to approve them. This means that someone at Topps approved the quote from Tina Trenkler. It's not Catalyst misquoting or pulling a quote out of context: it's something Topps deliberately wanted to say.

There is enough wiggle room for Topps to pull out. The extension hasn't been signed yet, and it's not as if Topps would be unable to say that gosh, things were worse than we thought, and it's a shame IMR couldn't pull through. But there is no gain to Topps from the press release if they weren't intending to sign an extension.

Speaking as a freelancer (NOT INVOLVED IN THIS AT ALL - I HAVE JUST FREELANCED IN THE RPG BUSINESS AND ELSEWHERE), the little people are fucked, and the Colemans will never, ever pay them.  Ever.  None of them will ever see a dime.

"It's a shit business.  I'm glad I'm not in it anymore."

Quote from: Thanlis;389296This is David Stansel, who is probably Frank's information source, trying to push IMR into involuntary bankruptcy. There are three parties to the petition, but that's all you need for an involuntary bankruptcy petition. If IMR goes bankrupt, the creditors may or may not get paid back -- depends on available funds -- but it definitely enhances Sandstorm's chances of getting the Shadowrun license.

Sandstorm would almost certainly be a better home for Shadowrun. I'd put money on it, in fact.

Barring the outcome of the hearing, I think the license is going to stick with IMR. I'm not quite confident enough to put money on that, but the Catalyst press release concerning the license extension is significant -- more so than some believe. The important thing about press releases involving two companies is that both companies have to approve them. This means that someone at Topps approved the quote from Tina Trenkler. It's not Catalyst misquoting or pulling a quote out of context: it's something Topps deliberately wanted to say.

There is enough wiggle room for Topps to pull out. The extension hasn't been signed yet, and it's not as if Topps would be unable to say that gosh, things were worse than we thought, and it's a shame IMR couldn't pull through. But there is no gain to Topps from the press release if they weren't intending to sign an extension.

David Stansel Garner? Really? First off: he is not my source. I haven't communicated with him since I worked for IMR back in 2007. Secondly: he is not directly involved in the bankruptcy case. The largest creditor in the case is actually WildFire - the makers of CthulhuTech. They started the case and they subsequently contracted David's new company as a publisher. The "David Stansel Garner is a secret mastermind pulling all the strings to make Loren Coleman look bad" meme is a very puzzling one. I've looked for evidence of it, and I can't find any.

Heck, I've even contacted David Stansel Garner's father (who actually is one of the people who is signed on to WildFire's bankruptcy petition) and asked him his side of the creditor fiasco. And I simply don't see the "David Stansel Garner is a secret ninja finance assassin trying to destroy Battletech." That meme makes no sense. The causes and effects on relevant events are simply not in the correct order to support such a hypothesis.

If he was really plotting to steal the company back in December, why did he offer to buy the company in January? And why did he revoke his offer to buy the company after he got access to the bank records? Heck, if he was secretly trying to destroy Battletech, why did he come back to work to draft a plan for Loren to repay the money he stole? And if he's such a damn mastermind, why did he only quit after Loren rejected the plan suggested by the book keeper? None of those data points fit the "David Stansel Garner is an evil genius who is trying to destroy Battletech" narrative that the Battlecorpsmen throw around.

-Frank

Quote from: FrankTrollman;389417None of those data points fit the "David Stansel Garner is an evil genius who is trying to destroy Battletech" narrative that the Battlecorpsmen throw around.

That's nice. It's not my narrative, so that's a bit of a straw man. If I was going to give my narrative a spiffy name, I'd call it "David Stansel-Garner is trying to save Shadowrun and/or Battletech," and I'd mean it. You kinda stuck all that mastermind stuff in there; if you assume he's sincerely interested in the health of the properties and would prefer to keep matters as orderly as possible, the sequence of events makes much more sense. First, try to get Loren to do the right thing; only then move on to more drastic measures.

Who at IMR was in a position to know that Jean-Phillipe Sugarbroad and Paul Stansel were creditors? That is not a rhetorical question; I'd be convinced the records and financials were in a bad state even if accusations had never been made. What's the story of how they wound up as participants in the law suit? Who's paying Karr Tuttle Campbell?

It's a fascinating story, if it wasn't such a painful one for a game that IMHO is really significant in the industry.

Any idea of what happened on the 9th then? Or has it been delayed some more?

It was bumped back to the 18th of October because the presiding judge retired.

IMR and the creditors settled (PDF).

Nobody updated this thread at the time, perhaps because everyone was sick and tired of it, but the Shadowrun license was extended back on June 25th. I can't remember if there was any information on how long the extension was -- I want to say it seemed like it was a bit short, but I dunno for sure.

Any idea what the settlement was? Or has that not been made public?