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Author Topic: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials  (Read 6638 times)

Rhedyn
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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2021, 03:47:32 PM »
OSE is a great pretty book that gets constant use to cover gaps B/X derivatives decided their game did not need, like sea travel rules or the depth of boats.

Spinachcat

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2021, 09:39:57 PM »
I don't see the draw of OSE and C&C is AD&D 3e.

As for compatibility issues in the OSR, I see lots of number counting of angels on the heads of pins. Back in the day, it was very common to mix and match B/X, AD&D, Arduin, Judges Guild and whatever weird zine you picked up at a local con.

B/X has always resounded with lots of gamers, so no surprise that OSE would gather fans. Of course, the joke of OD&D has always been that when you take 0e and add piles of new stuff, you end up with 1e and now need to go find 0e again.


Marchand

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 04:41:35 AM »
I think I asked on this board why everyone was getting such a massive stiffy for OSE back around the time it came out, and nobody really seemed to have an answer except better organisation, and basically I had no soul and why couldn't I just eff off and let people enjoy spending their money? So, I did.

I thought the answer would be a full re-organising of the rules in a quality hardback format, available as actual prints for using at the table, reducing some of the confusing sections, revitalizing interest in the Moldvay/Cook edition, and a KS that actually delivered on its expectations, but what do I know. heh

It's still arguably one of the best editions TSR put out, so it deserved to be known better.
Also WotC doesn't get any money from the purchase , which might be a plus for some, or even the key factor.

Soulless? eff off?  Strange reaction to a simple question unless there was more to it.

Yeah I thought so too. I was in the camp of struggling to see the point of shelling out for OSE when I already have B/X (and OD&D etc. etc.), but some people (I can't be bothered digging back old threads to name names) objected strongly to the question even being asked in a fairly neutral way. I don't care much either way, so I walked away. I suspect the more there was to it was just fans loving it. And, you know, good luck to them.
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The Spaniard

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2021, 06:28:57 PM »
Castles & Crusades predates the OSR for the most part, and it now has the crippling disadvantage of low compatibility with the best OSR adventures and materials. It's just less usable as a result relative to retro-clones and high-compatibility OSR games, so I don't think I would consider it unless I never used published modules.
  How is compatibility low?  I frequently convert 1E and/or OSRIC material on the fly with no trouble at all.

JeffB

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2021, 06:42:03 PM »
Castles & Crusades predates the OSR for the most part, and it now has the crippling disadvantage of low compatibility with the best OSR adventures and materials. It's just less usable as a result relative to retro-clones and high-compatibility OSR games, so I don't think I would consider it unless I never used published modules.
  How is compatibility low? 

It's not.

I don't see how anyone who spent more than 30 minutes DMing C&C can find it "low compatibility" with TSR, OSR, or even 3.0 material

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2021, 11:06:01 PM »
Some people have a very high bar for what they consider "compatible".  They are the same ones that didn't consider D&D 2E compatible with 1E.  I'm kind of the opposite.  If I can eyeball it and run with it straight out of the book, that's compatible enough for me.

Jam The MF

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2021, 02:11:48 AM »
Some people have a very high bar for what they consider "compatible".  They are the same ones that didn't consider D&D 2E compatible with 1E.  I'm kind of the opposite.  If I can eyeball it and run with it straight out of the book, that's compatible enough for me.


Evidently; some people take compatibility to mean plug and play, without modifications needed.
Let the Dice, Decide the Outcome.  Accept the Results.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2021, 08:47:58 AM »

Evidently; some people take compatibility to mean plug and play, without modifications needed.

I think it is often more like "Can I do the modifications in my head almost without conscious thought, on the fly?"  It's merely that those are highly subjective criteria which vary not only with the person and game but over time as the person gains familiarity with the game.  I mean, there was a time when I could run an AD&D module straight as a Fantasy Hero game, without writing down the converted stats.  Didn't mean they were compatible in any ordinary sense of the term, but in practice they were compatible for me. :D

trechriron

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2021, 06:12:12 PM »
I don't have nor have I read/played OSE. However, I'm a fan of C&C - the world of Aihrde is detailed and ideal for classic fantasy play. Tons of options and ideas across the books. It has some modern conventions but is very old-school in feel. Folks in TLG and fans are helpful and enthusiastic. New products (often in KS) improve on the product without making breaking changes to previous versions. It's a very customer/player friendly business model.
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Timothe

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2023, 08:03:37 AM »
Which do you prefer between Castles & Crusades and Old School Essentials and why?

Every time I look at C&C it seems like another 3e/5e clone. I’m not interested in that. Why do the reviewers keep saying it’s just like 1st edition AD&D?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2023, 08:05:43 AM by Timothe »

The Spaniard

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2023, 08:27:37 AM »
Which do you prefer between Castles & Crusades and Old School Essentials and why?

Every time I look at C&C it seems like another 3e/5e clone. I’m not interested in that. Why do the reviewers keep saying it’s just like 1st edition AD&D?

Other than having ascending AC and a different saving throw system, it feels just like playing AD&D.  I use all original 1E modules and/or more recent compatible work and just convert it with little or no prep.  It doesn't use the 3E skills or feats and is nothing like 5E.

Persimmon

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2023, 12:04:32 PM »
If anything 5e stole ideas from C&C, not the other way around.  But yeah, it really is AD&D with a couple, albeit significant, changes that give it that 21st century gloss.  That makes it easy to convert D&D adventures from most editions (not sure about 4th) over on the fly.  As an example, I've been doing a C&C conversion/expansion of Undermountain and it's been no trouble at all to convert either 2e or 5e material to C&C, particularly with the monsters.

The Spaniard

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2023, 12:23:15 PM »
Castles & Crusades predates the OSR for the most part, and it now has the crippling disadvantage of low compatibility with the best OSR adventures and materials. It's just less usable as a result relative to retro-clones and high-compatibility OSR games, so I don't think I would consider it unless I never used published modules.
  How is compatibility low? 

It's not.

I don't see how anyone who spent more than 30 minutes DMing C&C can find it "low compatibility" with TSR, OSR, or even 3.0 material

Exactly

Krugus

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2023, 01:56:45 PM »
I'm a fan of B/X rule set, and even though I have the original Basic and Expert sets on hand, I bought the OSE for reference material at the table.

Then I went on to hack my own system from OSE, and now I run that ;)

So, no need for anyone else's systems or settings at my table anymore.

I still buy OSR-related materials due to wanting to keep the OSR hobby alive.
Common sense isn't common; if it were, everyone would have it.

Karmarainbow

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Re: Castles & Crusades vs. Old School Essentials
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2023, 05:55:34 PM »