I find Classic Traveller nigh perfect for rpg, in that it's usually extremely unlikely (if not indeed impossible) to kill a character with a single shot; yet the first wound is very likely to make the victim hors de combat.

On the other hand, the frequency of serious wounds, and potential for death from follow-up shots, would be inconvenient for pacing of action and for long-term character development in such a combat-intensive game as D&D tends to be (hence the additional hit points for attaining experience levels, or other mechanisms in games of that sort).

Quote from: Will;806490CoC is a good highlighting of genre expectation.

I think the problem people often run into is when you sit down to a fantasy game, that actually straddles several genres/sub genres.

So when people seem to strangely wuss out about a character dying, it's probably due to this clash of expectations -- they are playing Xena: Warrior Princess and you're playing Game of Thrones.

I mention CoC because, in my experience, people are more likely to be on the same page about what the genre is, since there are way fewer influences on the game. Folks who might have gotten pissed about their character dying after a bad spill from a horse may laugh out loud as pieces of their investigator rains down on the survivors.

The assumption of universal uniform expectation can be one of the biggest stumbling blocks in running a successful game.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;806501Taking one's thorazine cocktail on the verandah in the perfume of the jasmine, without the tedious bother of manually keeping oneself upright in one's chair is victory by any civilized man's measure, sir!

You sir are a gentleman of style.

I admit that an advantage of playing GURPS is that while it's easy to incapacitate a character, short of slitting throats or hacking at downed bodies it's not easy to kill a character.

But that being said, and thinking over some of Will's comments ... look, this is about as YMMV a deal as exists in RPG gameplay.

TPKs happen because many players have no tactical sense.

TPKs happen because some systems are deadly, particularly where low-level/power characters are concerned.

TPKs happen because some GMs get off on killing characters.

TPKs happen because some gaming groups place a low priority on character survival, and the reaction to the loss of a character is no more than a shrug and a rollup of the replacement.

TPKs happen because the modus operandi of many gaming circles have is to surge into frontal assaults whenever possible, and to fight to the death once engaged.

And, sure, sometimes TPKs happen because the GM didn't know enough not to throw far too much at the PCs in a situation from which they couldn't withdraw.

Did I miss anything?

Sometimes the dice rolls really, really go against the party and for their opponents.

Oh god, low level 3.5e is ... obnoxious in that regard.

'Woops, the 1/2 level orc critted with a falchion. The thief takes... ... yeah, she's fucked.'

'You just missed 6 easy poison saves in a row. nnngh.'

Had a near wipe last night playing Rolemaster. Low level party of 5 (11 levels total) ran into 5 goblins led by a large ogre in the redwoods.

We knew they were coming, but not how many. We passed on the chance to retreat.
We failed our hide roles
The fighter who maneuvered for a rear attack on the ogre, critted but rolled poorly. N/E.
My mage got a spell stored sleep spell off the ogre, but no effect. He was too high level for that
Blows get exchanged for a few rounds. The goblins rolled well, the party doesn't.. most of the party gets stunned. The Ogre bashes two fighters around.
A second sleep goes off, but I roll poorly and only sleep one gobbo.
Next round, what's left of our line collapses, leaving the mage and a single PC fighter. We book.
Failed the mage's hard maneuver to run down a steep slope, opts to jump instead, and falling takes 6AK, is hurt some more and stunned for a few rounds, long enough for the single goblin archer to puncture him twice. K/O
The single fighter gets to the beach alone and onto a waiting jollyboat. Sole survivor. She sees more goblins in the hills as she rows away. Lucky.

Exciting end of session. Since these goblins are known to take prisoners, some of the survivors (including my mage) have a chance. The good news is that no one was bleeding to death. Regardless, my character is going to be retired for a while (dead or prisoner) and for next session I need a new PC.

It's all on the party. We made some bad choices and had some poor luck. The most important thing is that we're playing again in two weeks.

A TPK can be the mark of a shitty GM, if it was the GM's goal to kill the party for example.  Or, if he sets them up in a situation where they literally can't possibly EITHER win or escape.

But in my experience, it's far more often the mark of incautious players.