Based on the success of the best FLGS that is in my area.  They are doing well because they have diversified.  They don't just sell gaming stuff.  They sell RPG's, GW, other Mini-Games, books, an enitire range of boardgames; from educational, through to kids, family, traditional and then of course the major 'geek' games as well as counter war games, then CCG's, CMG's, and other collectibles like hockey cards.  Then they branch out to some party supplies, playmobile, lego, historical action figures, star wars, GI-Joe's, puzzles and models.  

They don't have any gaming tables and they don't host any events.   What they are is knowledgeable and friendly and stay out of the way other then to say high or give a friendly nod unless you ask them questions.   They run the store, not like a geek haven but like a store and any time I go in there there it's filled with a wide range of customers from kids with their parents, the geek crowd and just regular shoppers.  It does well because it doesn't come across as a geek store and doesn't suffer from the stigma that a lot of FLGS's have.   I've run into plenty of people who shop their regularly without every realizing they cater to gamers in the 'geek' sense of the word.

Well, the US is currently in a major recession, so it is not a surprise that FLGS are suffering because hobbies like RPGs are considered a luxury. Luxuries are the first to go when money is scarce.

Quote from: jeff37923;359944Well, the US is currently in a major recession, so it is not a surprise that FLGS are suffering because hobbies like RPGs are considered a luxury. Luxuries are the first to go when money is scarce.

Depends on where you're at I guess - remember, the U.S. is a big place, and not all of it is in the same boat as Detroit, for example. I've spent more in the last 6 months on game-related stuff than in the year or two previously I guess, but not from FLGS. There really aren't any near me, it seems, so Half-Price books and eBay gets it done.

Quote from: RPGPunditOR, is it really that in the new realities of today gaming stores only need to actually do what they already do, but better: provide better service, actually BE friendly, etc?

Quote from: PaladinCA;359897I think brick and mortar stores need six things to succeed.

1-Great customer service.
2-An online presence w/online orders.
3-Discount pricing on large purchases (10-15%).
4-Location, Location, Location.
5-Space for gaming tables, preferably set away from the retail part of the operation.
6-Regularly sheduled events for the gaming community & promotion of the events.

Both of these posts are what is needed to be done. I cant point out enough, the be friendly and professional.

Quote from: jeff37923;359944Well, the US is currently in a major recession, so it is not a surprise that FLGS are suffering because hobbies like RPGs are considered a luxury. Luxuries are the first to go when money is scarce.

Except rpgs have always done well when the economy is  down. Although now with $40-50 books, that might not be the case.

According to white wolf, dedicated game stores have shrunk from 2000 in 2001 to about 750 in 2009. Bookstores are aso closing at an alarming rate. I think dedicated gaming stores should have started carrying video games a long time ago.

BTW I've never seen a dedicated rpg store, they've always had family board games and puzles and ccgs and stuff.

I think that FLGSes can be saved as soon as the next big fad comes along.

Face it, the gaming store is and has always been a fad store.

When they have a fad they can cash in on (RPGs, CCGs, Warhammer, collectible minis, high end boardgames) the stores do very well.

When the fads start to die out, they do crappy.
* RPGs have been fading since the 80s
* CCGs heyday was back in ye olde 90s
* Warhammer got really popular for a while, but has been fading for several years now (outside of video games)
* Collectible mnis have been on the downslope for the last couple of years
* Boardgames are on the upswing, but are quite pricey and don't attract the mass impulse sales that the other fads had

So, as I see it, somebody needs to come up with the next big fad of cheap, impulse buy crap if we want to keep game stores afloat.

In Colorado Springs, a smallish city, nestled in the shadow of the Stargate, we have three game stores on three points of one intersection. They all have ample playing space, and they have almost no overlap in customer base. Besides that, we have two other independent stores with tables, two Hobbytowns (hobby store chain) and one It's Your Move (mall-based game store chain). We have two used book stores that have extensive game sections. We have Border's and Barnes & Noble selling games to the straights.

We have Denver, with numerous game stores an hour to the north, and Pueblo, with a couple shops a half hour to the south.

One of the stores in town is pretty new, the rest are all fairly well established. That one corner, though. Man. It's some kind of statistical anomaly, I tell you what.

In order to save the FLGS it may be neccessary for the FLGS to die.  Or at least that is my hope.  If some of the bad stores die perhaps it will create opportunities for new stores to spring up.  If it weren't for the two bad stores here I'd open a store.  But I can't afford to have the more successful of the two cut everything I carry to 80% til I die out.  Which he has done quite successfully before.

I've never seen a dedicated roleplaying game store, and I live in driving distance of Origins, with 5 or so LGS. I don't think the main local hobby store* chain carries RPGs anymore, likely not selling enough to justify it. Game stores even back in the D&D fad days always carried at least miniature games if not board and card games as well, and most also had comic books. These days used videos and video games help and some computers for LAN / intraweb gaming too.

But yeah, if the average geek group is turned off, the average couple or family sure as hell won't buy from a LGS. Professionalism and enthusiasm help a lot, same as any store.

I know it's hard if not stupid for stores to stock a ton of games, so keeping in stock mostly stuff they know will sell is fine. But take special orders to handle everything else and be professional about it. DON'T CHARGE UP FRONT. Take down contact info / require a store account, whatever.

I still think they're useful for local gaming, checking out demos and new products and such. But then the stores around here aren't too bad, though one's declined due to change of ownership and the other is rather a Comic Book Guy despite (or the cause of) having a big selection in stock and they're right next to a pizza joint so attract catpissmen who I swear live in the back gaming 24-7.


* I don't mean crafts stores, I mean stores that carry model kits, RC vehicles, railroads, supplies and the like; they do carry boxed games and some miniature games like Flames of War etc.

I'd love to know the impact of WFRP 3e on the profits of struggling game stores. I've seen it in the shop near me, which is relatively new (Excelsior comics in Bristol). They have a respectable couple of shelves and apparently have gaming nights on Tuesdays (no good for me since I can't get there). It's on sale for around £80! That must cost a lot to buy in. But then I know they've made sales for some of the 40k games and Starblazer adventures at least. Those are quite chunky products. Could 3e be the straw that breaks the camel's lgs?

Quote from: PaladinCA;359919If I had a quarter million to lose I might try to open one, but certainly not during this recession.

Hobby dollars are the first thing to disappear during recessions and I think many of the closures are due to the current recession (with no end in sight).

tell that to GW!

Quote from: KrakaJak;359951Except rpgs have always done well when the economy is  down. Although now with $40-50 books, that might not be the case.

According to white wolf, dedicated game stores have shrunk from 2000 in 2001 to about 750 in 2009. Bookstores are aso closing at an alarming rate. I think dedicated gaming stores should have started carrying video games a long time ago.

BTW I've never seen a dedicated rpg store, they've always had family board games and puzles and ccgs and stuff.

Indeed, but there are an awful lot of people who would resent that.

When i flirted with the idea of getting into 40k (biiiiiiiig mistake), i visited the local GW hive bearing a £20 game i'd just purchased and proceeded to get a nice lecture telling me not only that that money could have gone to buying whatever starter set he was on comission to hawk, but that video games are antisocial and crap blah blah blah.

I've no doubt there are lots of gamers with such reactionary views, even though i would think selling video games is a good enough idea to at least try. Maybe do a line in second hand games sales (rather than try and compete with GAME).

More RPG companies need a RPGA-like community builder that is focussed on FLGS play.  Game Empire in Pasadena (home of the Rose Bowl) has a huge play space and people drop in during D&D game days who haven't gamed in decades but they were walking by.  Many of them have joined up and/or bought stuff because they saw people gaming...not just an empty store.

If the FLGS survives, they must build gaming communities.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;360029That must cost a lot to buy in.

Warhammer can be a boon or a bane for a store. If theres a big scene and you have regular purchasers, the store can make money. But if it just sits, with no regular buyers it can sink the store. When my friend who used to own a comic shop/FLGS looked into carring Warhammer. If I remember correctly it was around 1200 dollars US to buy in.

If you really want Warhammer to go for you it's more like $5000.  You have to have the product they're looking for when they want it.

Warhammer's a decent cash cow but Magic the Gathering is a better one.

Rpgs haven't found a model that lets them compete with those two yet.  Dice are a big seller but they aren't really an rpg,

I don't think D&D 4e or WFRP 3e will find that niche either.  The problem with rpgs is the huge backlog of books most gamers have and the tendancy they have to back out when a new edition comes.  I wonder if the new edition would sell better if it included the entire product line for the prior edition in pdf?

This may seem like throwing away a potential online sale, but I wonder whether online sales are really good enough compared to sales of the new edition.