Quote from: Crusader X on January 21, 2023, 12:28:56 PM
Pen, if you like watching livestreams, THAC0 Tuesday is a good series where they play OSE and run The Keep on the Borderlands module.  Some of the sessions involve wilderness travel as well, so you might find the videos interesting.

I'll definitely check that stream out. Thanks!!!

Quote from: Persimmon on January 21, 2023, 10:33:47 AM
It still baffles me how people somehow can't figure out THACO or understand the concept of reading a "to hit" table.  It's the same level of math.  But then again, the average check out clerk at the grocery store these days can't compute change from a dollar so I guess that's the level society is at these days.

Thaco has been proven over time, to be less popular with the average person.  It is a dying concept.

You are totally right; about there being a great number of cashiers, who can't make change for a dollar.  It is laughably unbelievable, but true.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 21, 2023, 01:42:16 PM

Quote from: Persimmon on January 21, 2023, 10:33:47 AM
It still baffles me how people somehow can't figure out THACO or understand the concept of reading a "to hit" table.  It's the same level of math.  But then again, the average check out clerk at the grocery store these days can't compute change from a dollar so I guess that's the level society is at these days.

Thaco has been proven over time, to be less popular with the average person.  It is a dying concept.

You are totally right; about there being a great number of cashiers, who can't make change for a dollar.  It is laughably unbelievable, but true.

I totally get why ascending AC is more popular and it's true that I'm an absolute grognard in life in general, but the argument that descending AC is somehow difficult to grasp because that math is hard is ridiculous. 

Plus, as someone noted, that stuff is usually written on the character sheet anyhow and really only the DM needs to keep track of that stuff.  I never reveal monster AC.  I just tell the players to roll and I'll let them know if they've hit.  Most DMs I've played with do the same thing.

Quote from: Persimmon on January 21, 2023, 10:33:47 AM
It still baffles me how people somehow can't figure out THACO or understand the concept of reading a "to hit" table.  It's the same level of math.  But then again, the average check out clerk at the grocery store these days can't compute change from a dollar so I guess that's the level society is at these days.

Comfort with THAC0 is far more a function of experience than it is of intelligence. As you said, both systems are essentially kindergarten-level arithmetic. THAC0 is the same math with an extra step, and most people find addition faster to do in their heads than subtraction.

My comment was specifically in the context of new players. For people who are experienced and invested in the hobby, I consider the two systems pretty much interchangeable, but for total newbies it's best to remove as many things as possible that might distract them from the roleplaying.

THAC0 isn't hard, but it is unnecessary.  I see no upside to using it.  So, I don't.

But, back to the original post.  First time RPGs. 

Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool is specifically written with kids in mind.  There isn't any complex math.   It's main feature is to start out everything as a D4, upgrading to bigger sized dice.  Also, many talents exist for each class that add more dice to a roll, such as Slayer that adds a dice if you use a two handed melee weapon, or Soldier that adds a dice if you use a hammer or axe.  All rolls are an attribute dice + skill dice to beat a target number, even magic.  So a Dwarf soldier with Slayer talent and a 2-handed axe rolls a D8 for his strength, a D6 for melee skill, a D4 for using an axe, and a D4 for using a 2-handed weapon.  Roll all that, pick the best 2 dice results, add, and see if you can equal or better a 5 to hit a skeleton.

https://biggeekemporium.com/product/dungeons-delvers-dice-pool/

OSE "Old School Essentials", offers a relatively simple gaming system; within a single handy sized hardback, that travels with you easily.  You have two versions to select from: Classic Fantasy, which is Early 1980s BX alone; or Advanced Fantasy, with additional options adapted from Late 1970s AD&D.  Either way, buy just one book; and you'll have everything you'll ever need, except dice and adventures.

Quote from: Pen on January 20, 2023, 03:53:26 PM
Old School Essentials
Pros: simple and elegant rule set.
Cons: lethality and they might get bored with combat encounters.

Genesys RPG
Pros: Freedom and unexpected twists
Cons: No journey system and could overwhelm them

The One Ring 2e
Pros: journey system and interesting combat (protection rolls, etc)
Cons: it seems like a lot of bookkeeping for fiddly stuff, can get depressing/bland at times

Out of those I'd probably go with OSE.