Ok, this is way off in my 5E campaign. But I'm sort of looking at setting the groundwork for the possibility the characters possibly buying titles, land, property etc.

So on the lines of buying off those sorts of things from a local lord.
Perhaps some lands that are overgrown now and wild. It may have had an old building that needs refurbishing and garrisoning.
Maybe even do a mini hexcrawl type campaign to clear a certain amount of hexes for the lands they buy the rights to.

Does anyone know if the DMG will handle this sort of thing?
If not, does anyone have any very 5E compatible rules for this?
I think there were some sourcebooks available for DnD for stuff like castles, but I don't know if they covered:

buying land
Buying Titles
Buying property
Maintaining castles/property
Hiring staff, soldiery etc.

I don't want to turn it into a huge resource management game either, so this sort of thing at a high level, rather than up close and detailed is preferable.

My idea is when they eventually finish "The temple of elemental evil" they might want to take over the moathouse and clear the area of bandits and monsters etc and refurbish the Moathouse for themselves.
Sort of semi retire the characters and start over.

Harn has an article for that.

http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4916
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/83513/Real-Estate?term=Real+Est



Sorry couldn't resist

Quote from: estar;800657Harn has an article for that.

http://www.columbiagames.com/cgi-bin/query/harn/cfg/single.cfg?product_id=4916
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/83513/Real-Estate?term=Real+Est



Sorry couldn't resist

Heh, I'll probably ignore that sort of realism.
Harn is great and all, but ATM not to my tastes.

The investment rules from Lamentations of the Flame Princess could easily be adapted to D&DV.

Quote from: danskmacabre;800655buying land
Buying Titles
Buying property
Maintaining castles/property
Hiring staff, soldiery etc.

It seems like the details for these will be very setting specific.

QuoteMy idea is when they eventually finish "The temple of elemental evil" they might want to take over the moathouse and clear the area of bandits and monsters etc and refurbish the Moathouse for themselves.
Sort of semi retire the characters and start over.

Depending on how much refurbishing is necessary this seems like it wouldn't require all the stuff above to game it out. Here's how I might handle it.

Buying Title and Buying Property: I'd say these are unnecessary. Presumably someone high enough up the hierarchy of a nearby realm would be willing to recognize the self-assumed title of a powerful PC who has cleared the moathouse and surrounding area in return for the quid pro quo of recognizing the ruler of the realm, maintaining and guarding the moathouse and lands, and providing the ruler with fealty and/or taxes. All the PC would need to do is pick a title that isn't so grandiose as to annoy the people of similar title and below in the realm in question. So for something like England or France Baron or Seigneur might be a good starting title. And if there is no nearby realm, then the PC can call themselves whatever damn thing they please because who will gainsay them?

Assume that maintenance is covered by the income of the Barony, but that the Barony doesn't provide any large overage.

As for hiring, give the hiring PC(s) a roll to see what % of the total number of needed or desired recruits show up. (Start with something like 50% +/- 5D20% adjusted based on CHA and availability of soldiers for hire and how hard or easy you want to make acquiring a staff.) Alternately the PCs could go out and try to take over bandit gangs and knock over companies of soldiers or barons who are hostile to the ruler who recognized the PC Baron. They could then recruit or impress troops from the groups they defeated.

Hiring costs and maintenance costs for NPCs could be handled via a feudal set up. Give the hired men land grants in the new barony. That way the GM just needs to figure out how many hirelings the lands can suppport which is probably simpler than getting into a GP per hiring and support model. Personally I'd look at how many people the moathouse can house and assume nearby lands if cleared could support that many people.

Quote from: Bren;800668It seems like the details for these will be very setting specific.

Depending on how much refurbishing is necessary this seems like it wouldn't require all the stuff above to game it out. .

Entirely true.

Considering all of this stuff is sytem independent and depending totally on the setting I wonder that it's a thing that is so high on folks priorities.

You could take any game that has these systems in place and just lift and tweak them for your setting.
You could design your own settings based rules with as much or as little detail as you like just using historical sources if you are a purist.
You could abstract the whole shebang and say for x acres of this type of land you get y gold per year and employ z people.

Also D&D has already done it. the 1e DMG has a great list of hirelings with costs (tweakabel for any setting) the 2e Castle Guide has a bunch of information allowing you to cost out a castle build wall by wall.

Fill your boots.

Quote from: danskmacabre;800662Heh, I'll probably ignore that sort of realism.
Harn is great and all, but ATM not to my tastes.

In its defense the article is short and too the point and easily converted as everything in in silver pieces. Think of it as a concise summary of medieval real estate practices.

Harnmanor is the one that gets into the nitty gritty details.

If it is just refurbishing an existing castle then you could use the guidelines from BX or AD&D for costs.

If it is a broader scope like clearing and settling the land then you might want to look at BECMI's Domain rules.

2nd ed I believe also had something called Castle Guide I think. Havent had a chance to really go over it yet.

OA might be another source as it had rules for yearly running of a holding. Mostly abstracted to event points during the year to keep things from bogging down. But creat fun when Godzilla decides to stomp the PCs castle. heh-heh.

But OA's event tables are viable for any other setting.

Lastly is d20 Gamma Worlds system which runs the city as a sort of character in and of itself with a certain flow to events that can cascade through the town. Upgrades were treated as skills and feats. I am still working on converting that to 5e.

If you want a high level approach anyway, An Echo, Resounding should be right up your alley.

Quote from: Saladman;800699If you want a high level approach anyway, An Echo, Resounding should be right up your alley.

Oh wow, Echo resounding looks awesome.
I love Sine Nomine's work as well, I'm used to run Stars without number and Other dust a lot and loved it.  Thanks.

Quote from: danskmacabre;800704I love Sine Nomine's work as well, I'm used to run Stars without number and Other dust a lot and loved it.  Thanks.

Then it should be a slam dunk.  (And, you're welcome!)  I'm otherwise a fan of ACKS, but that's more detailed, its priced out in individual gold pieces, and depends more on using ACKS price lists and treasure rewards as well, if not the entire game.  Echo uses resource points, which should be a lot easier to graft into an existing campaign.  You'll have to give some thought to how you want Wealth to scale against gold pieces, but... that's about it.  Otherwise it should be plug and play.

Since we're mentioning systems, I guess I should say that Arrows of Indra has rules on property ownership and running businesses of various kinds.  Of course, I think it might not work out for most 5e games, unless you were going with something a little exotic.