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Author Topic: Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)  (Read 4714 times)

Broken Twin

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2018, 12:37:23 PM »
I own a copy of Burning Wheel, and while I love the idea, I doubt I'll ever actually get to play or run a game of it.

Azraele

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2018, 01:01:16 PM »
Quote from: Itachi;1066921
Spike is giving his honest assessment without offending anyone. Kudos for that.

The problem I see around here is that a lot of people appears to take pleasure in offending or insulting fans of games they don't like. That's something I honestly can't understand.

You can't comprehend sadism?

I was blowing off steam in my criticism up there: the attitude surrounding BW was something I found odious. My vitriol is an emotional release valve for the frustration I experienced with the evasiveness of the text and the condescension of some of it's more obnoxious fans.

Since literally every fan who's responded here has been a paragon of restraint, candor and earnestness, though, it really de-fanged my attitude and made me come off like a jerk. Thanks, you gentlemanly bastards.

I even edited my post to reflect my current shame. Bathe in it, you delightful pricks.
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jeff37923

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2018, 01:30:36 PM »
Quote from: Tyndale;1066866
No apology needed. But, to push back, BW is no different of a language change than Dungeon World or FATE IMHO, but this may be its own damnation : ) FWIW.  

This said, I appreciate the new verbiage in the sense the it alerts everyone that the rules and underlying mechanic assumptions are completely different.   #NotInKansasAnymore


I'm not that impressed with Dungeon World or FATE, either.
"Meh."

jhkim

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2018, 02:06:40 PM »
I'm fine with agreeing that Burning Wheel isn't to a lot of people's tastes, but some people really like it.


One complaint that Spike and Azraele had was how Burning Wheel isn't very up-front with what play is supposed to be like, and instead relies on emergent properties of play. On the other hand, I've run into an awful lot of rule systems that were explicit about "play should be like X" - but in practice the rules don't facilitate that well. I definitely prefer the former.

Azraele

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2018, 02:10:27 PM »
Quote from: jhkim;1066972
I'm fine with agreeing that Burning Wheel isn't to a lot of people's tastes, but some people really like it.


One complaint that Spike and Azraele had was how Burning Wheel isn't very up-front with what play is supposed to be like, and instead relies on emergent properties of play. On the other hand, I've run into an awful lot of rule systems that were explicit about "play should be like X" - but in practice the rules don't facilitate that well. I definitely prefer the former.

Okay, dammit, I've got to concede that too: I hate what burning wheel does, and I hate that it's cagey about it, but god damn it succeeds at doing it.
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Steven Mitchell

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2018, 02:19:32 PM »
Quote from: Azraele;1066967
You can't comprehend sadism?

I was blowing off steam in my criticism up there: the attitude surrounding BW was something I found odious. My vitriol is an emotional release valve for the frustration I experienced with the evasiveness of the text and the condescension of some of it's more obnoxious fans.

Since literally every fan who's responded here has been a paragon of restraint, candor and earnestness, though, it really de-fanged my attitude and made me come off like a jerk. Thanks, you gentlemanly bastards.

I even edited my post to reflect my current shame. Bathe in it, you delightful pricks.

If it makes you feel any better, some of its fans annoy the hell out of me.  I know exactly where you are coming from on that.  Some of them, if they posted here, would stick out as being particularly strong in the "asshole" department, which is really saying something. Heh.

Spike

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2018, 07:32:00 PM »
Quote from: jhkim;1066972

One complaint that Spike and Azraele had was how Burning Wheel isn't very up-front with what play is supposed to be like, and instead relies on emergent properties of play. On the other hand, I've run into an awful lot of rule systems that were explicit about "play should be like X" - but in practice the rules don't facilitate that well. I definitely prefer the former.


I'm actually less down with the Boardgame elements.  I think trying to build your game around coding Emergent Play, which includes all those fuzzy rules (or in BE at least, including something like one third of the skill list being 'non-playable' skills, included so you could color your character) is a flawed experiment to create that EP, but it doesn't actually bother me, any more than WW's Nature and Demeanor 'rules' bother me.
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Jason Coplen

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2018, 01:36:26 AM »
Tyndale,

Okay, I over-generalized. Some fans. Not all. My apologies if what I posted was taken poorly.
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Tyndale

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
Quote from: Jason Coplen;1067080
Tyndale,

Okay, I over-generalized. Some fans. Not all. My apologies if what I posted was taken poorly.

All good, and no apologies needed.  I partly understand - some BW fans are...zealous(?).  Just wanted to leave some space for us normal ones too.
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ffilz

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Burning Wheel (the end-all be-all of RPGing?)
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2018, 01:49:37 PM »
Burning Wheel is hard, no doubt about that. But I have had some good play with it. I've also had some crappy play with it, but I've had that with most games I've played.

While soul wrenching angst is one way to play the game (and is better supported than many games that people like to play characters torn by angst - and is how one blog I used to read really pushed the game), it's not the only way to play.

In fact, I suspect if players approached the game NOT as some edgy game, and instead just wrote BITs about going adventuring, and the GM presented things to challenge those beliefs, really not that differently than one stocks an OD&D dungeon, a fun game would ensue. The interesting part is that if a player did wind up in a position to make an angst ridden decision, the game would support that, and play might enter a whole new dimension.

I haven't really played Burning Wheel in years, but it has earned a place in my "If I could only take this briefcase with me for gaming stuff" bag.

Frank