The Red Box (Elmore cover, Mentzer editing, 1983) spends a lot of time on making sure the newbies know how to play.

The Pink Box (Otus cover, Moldvay edit, 1981) is probably the clearest presentation for someone who already knows how to play.

The Blue Box (Holmes Edit, 1978) is most like OD&D and a proto-AD&D and rough in some spots but because of the wide monster selection is probably the easiest set to go it alone with.

These books are way more compatible than any three editions of AD&D.  I've run modules written for one set using the rules found in another set without blinking.  Personally, I find Mentzer the least inspiring of the three, because even when it came out in 1983 it felt like he was talking down to me, and I was only 10 at the time.  But rules-wise the differences between it and Moldvay are of not much real interest when the dice are hitting the table.

Short answer: You can't really go wrong with any of these three sets.  Anyone who says otherwise is really splitting hairs.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!For those prices, frankly, I ain't innersted.  Maybe it's .pdfs after all.

The OD&D core set PDFs print out fine but work best with recent versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader. I printed out a set, put them in a binder with some FAQs & commentary + a cleaned up printout of the Judges Guild Ref sheets PDF. :cool:

If you get OD&D core set on PDF IMO don't print the reference sheets file in the order the file has (booklet?). I wound up printing a page a side with my own ordering, chargen first and ending with the treasure charts.

If you've not already done so, download the free Supplement II - Blackmoor from Dave Arneson's site. :pundit: TONS of giant frogs & some gonzo sci-fantasy in the first published RPG adventure.

sidenote: Empire of the Petal Throne (EPT), is an early (1975) OD&D variant & setting. Available as a nice PDF or print. While the rules aren't pure OD&D it's a nice supplement & helps clarify some points IMO. I am biased though. :pundit:

A question about the PDFs -- I read a few RPGNow reviews that indicated that the PDFs weren't scans of the classic books, but were actually OCRs. This struck me as odd; after all, if you can scan the book and have the scanner 'read' the text and convert it to a text file, why not just scan the page as a PDF?

At any rate, the reviews indicate that the OCR scan mis-read a few words, resulting in some confusing typos that weren't caught by the editor(s).

Can anyone verify any of this? I'd like to pick these manuals up, but only if I'm getting actual scans of the actual book.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!So -- change of pace:  How different is this
from this
and/or this
?

Not very. All cover roughly the same ground with a slightly different focus. I don't think Mentzer came with a separate module but has some starter adventures in the books.

Mentzer Basic (the B of BECMI) is two books, players' and DM's with Elmore illustrations and very good for complete newbies. It looks and reads the best of the three. Like jrients I initially passed on it because by the time it came out I was into AD&D and this was a bit *too* basic & while the Elmore art is very good, it's not as "weird".

Moldvay Basic (the B of B/X) is a single hole punched book with mainly Otus artwork (i.e. "weird") and is designed for a game that ends at lower levels, which makes no difference for just the Basic sets.

Holmes Basic single book, the smallest of the three & the closest to OD&D w/ some unique quirks, with a very good monster set. Very playable though it doesn't read as good, especially to newbies. With the addition of Meepo's companion this could easily be a "full" RPG. Artwork ranges from pretty good (esp. Sutherland) to downright cartoony. I'm biased on this one because I started with this set. :pundit:

Holmes has the most OD&D feel + some AD&D & unique quirks to it. Moldvay is very lost world meets Weird Tales (esp. if combined with Cook Expert & the module X1). Mentzer is a very good polished starter.

note: Labyrinth Lord is a free retro-clone of Moldvay Basic & Cook Expert (B/X). It's rather good, but it's not quite the same thing. It's worth reading Moldvay's own writing (esp. the great introduction) & looking at some of Otus' best artwork.

Quote from: Casey777If you've not already done so, download the free Supplement II - Blackmoor from Dave Arneson's site. :pundit: TONS of giant frogs & some gonzo sci-fantasy in the first published RPG adventure.

DUDE.  Free, legal .pdf?  I'm on it.  Thanks, man!

Quote from: RChandlerA question about the PDFs -- I read a few RPGNow reviews that indicated that the PDFs weren't scans of the classic books, but were actually OCRs.

OCR makes a PDF file *much* smaller than an image scan, searchable and you can copy / paste bits of the text directly from the PDF. Which can be very useful. YMMV.

The OD&D core set PDFs are OCR'd* but have the original images intact. I don't have originals to compare to, but the OD&D core set pdf seems ok enough (and it's not like the actual set didn't have errata, % Liar anyone?) and it has been revised.

The Empire of the Petal Throne PDF is not OCR'd and is a clean image scan. EPT's accent marks etc. made OCR work much more difficult so the PDF prep person decided not to release an OCR version at this time.


* the supplements were scanned years earlier by different people but are IIRC also OCR'd; the version of Blackmoor on Arneson's site seems to be a different scan but is also OCR'd

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!DUDE.  Free, legal .pdf?  I'm on it.  Thanks, man!

You're welcome. Others helped me get into this stuff, so I do my bit in turn.

The Blackmoor PDF is also a good, free intro to how OD&D looks, right down to the disorganized monster listings. :keke: Encounter Critical isn't far from this. :hehe:

Quote from: Casey777Encounter Critical isn't far from this. :hehe:

Funny, I was thinking the same thing as I looked at Blackmoor.

What's meepo?

Meepo is a Dragonsfoot poster, Rabbit. Tsk.

So Holmes Basic is very close to OD&D? That's the book I started D&D with.

Quote from: Elliot WilenWhat's meepo?

Meepo's Holmes Companion (A Level 4-9 Rules Expansion for TSR's 1978 D&D Basic Set)

Didn't have the link handy when posting & was in a rush. A good poster, and posts on more than Dragonsfoot.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityHolmes (the blue one) caps off at level 2, doesn't it? And unlike for the Red and Purple there was no expansion set. Well, there was, AD&D, to which it's much closer than the other two IIRC.

All 3 of those Basic Sets end at Level 3. While there's no "Holmes Expert", Cook Expert has a little summary of Moldvay Basic in it + notes on what to do if you started with Holmes Basic. I went from Holmes Basic to Cook Expert with no problems as a kid. And these days you can use Meepo's pdf too. :cool:

While Holmes Basic does have some AD&Disms, how much depends on which printing :raise: , for example, IIRC earlier ones have the original 3 alignments instead of AD&D's. There's some analysis online at Knights & Knaves Alehouse and at the Acaeum.

Meepo's expanded the Companion to level 9 from level 6 !!!

Cheers Casey  

Moldvay rules!  (Even though I started with Holmes...)

Quote from: Elliot Wilen...
I don't know about the Holmes version but the Moldvay & Mentzer (purple & red) versions differ most notably in how Magic Users work with spellbooks, spell acquisition, and spell research...

Also, Thief abilities are somewhat better in the Moldvay Basic rules iirc.  However, this doesn't become noticeable until you get to the Expert levels (4-14).  Thief abilities pretty much 'top out' in the Moldvay/Cook Basic/Expert D&D rules at level 14.  In contrast, thief abilities progress very slowly in the Mentzer BECMI rules, since they don't 'max out' until level 36.  (Er ... I hope that made sense.)

Quote from: Sacrificial LambSo Holmes Basic is very close to OD&D? That's the book I started D&D with.

Yes. It even has the same wonderful forward by Gary Gygax, the ending of which was recently posted on Mike Mearls' blog. :cool:

Holmes Basic is almost like Holmes' houseruled OD&D with bits from some of the OD&D supplements (thief, some spells, etc.), his own campaign, and likely outside bits like the Perrin Conventions* with Gary Gygax having final approval and adding in some teasers for the then still in progress AD&D.

The monster selection has creatures with HD well over 3 and the treasure list is pretty thorough esp. when you consider a +1 sword was rather powerful back then. With Meepo's Companion it's very cool, though these days I see it similar to EPT, a good aid to interpreting OD&D.

And it has that cool drawing of a lizardman with a lizard on his lizard helmet, riding a giant lizard. Which you could play as a PC! :keke: Something not possible under AD&D.

* these are Steve Perrin's houserules for OD&D and are likely why Holmes Basic has initiative by DEX and seem to have been a key factor in Perrin being hired for Runequest. :pundit: