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Author Topic: Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!  (Read 4452 times)

SHARK

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« on: May 08, 2020, 12:44:06 AM »
Greetings!

How do you determine the price of slaves in your campaign world? Different valuation factors go into such considerations, male and female, the slave's age, general health, as well as any intelligence, and special skills and knowledge. As well as fertility and beauty. That has to jack the prices up enormously.

Do you detail culture's various kinds of laws and customs regarding slaves?

How do player characters interact with such customs in your campaigns?

The addition of magic I think makes a number of enhancements to slavery especially profitable, not merely from the individual slave master's perspective, but most notably, in the overall effect on slavery within the community and culture itself.

Then, are there distinctions between say, a culture that is dominated by brutal Orc slave masters, dragging slaves into dark mines to toil forever, or breeding pits to be thrown into the breeding pits to breed hordes of Half Orc children, and something like ancient China or ancient India, not to mention cultures like ancient Greece, Rome, Carthage, and Persia.

I think there are many interesting culture details and adventures that can develop from such elements.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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GeekyBugle

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2020, 12:53:59 AM »
Quote from: SHARK;1129243
Greetings!

How do you determine the price of slaves in your campaign world? Different valuation factors go into such considerations, male and female, the slave's age, general health, as well as any intelligence, and special skills and knowledge. As well as fertility and beauty. That has to jack the prices up enormously.

Do you detail culture's various kinds of laws and customs regarding slaves?

How do player characters interact with such customs in your campaigns?

The addition of magic I think makes a number of enhancements to slavery especially profitable, not merely from the individual slave master's perspective, but most notably, in the overall effect on slavery within the community and culture itself.

Then, are there distinctions between say, a culture that is dominated by brutal Orc slave masters, dragging slaves into dark mines to toil forever, or breeding pits to be thrown into the breeding pits to breed hordes of Half Orc children, and something like ancient China or ancient India, not to mention cultures like ancient Greece, Rome, Carthage, and Persia.

I think there are many interesting culture details and adventures that can develop from such elements.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I don't, mainly because slavery is something the bad guys engage in, but I might be interested on reading your take for a possible implementation in my totally not Conan game.
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RandyB

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2020, 08:41:47 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129245
I don't, mainly because slavery is something the bad guys engage in, but I might be interested on reading your take for a possible implementation in my totally not Conan game.

Here's one: slavery is not practiced along racial lines. Members of most or all races are, at any given time, both slaves and slave owners. Likewise for any slavers. Thus no race has any prominence in any role in the practice.

oggsmash

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2020, 09:44:40 AM »
I remember the mongoose publishing Conan rpg had a list price for slaves based on training, demand, etc.  If I used them I guess I would use that table and convert to relevant currency (conan main coinage was silver, as gold was closer to historic value, and rare)

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2020, 10:35:26 AM »
You might consider the Roman latifundia as a model as well.

That being said: expect good-aligned PCs to take umbrage.

Jason Coplen

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2020, 10:59:22 AM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1129278
That being said: expect good-aligned PCs to take umbrage.

I'm going to be that guy and ask - why? Wouldn't that be more of a cultural thing? Wouldn't some good PCs not think poorly of slavery?  I barely remember a series I read as a teen where the PCs (best term for them) were all about freeing slaves, but they initially came from our world and had our sensibilities.
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RandyB

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2020, 11:05:32 AM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1129278
That being said: expect good-aligned PCs to take umbrage.


Quote from: Jason Coplen;1129281
I'm going to be that guy and ask - why? Wouldn't that be more of a cultural thing? Wouldn't some good PCs not think poorly of slavery?


Agreed. Unless you consider the whole of Western Civilization prior to 1800 to be uniformly evil.

Wait.... ;)

Torque2100

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2020, 11:19:14 AM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129245
I don't, mainly because slavery is something the bad guys engage in, but I might be interested on reading your take for a possible implementation in my totally not Conan game.

Same.  Slavery is generally viewed today as the ultimate evil.  I can think of worse fates, but to be in enslaved is definitely one of the worst things you can do to another human being.  I mean think about it: to kidnap them from their home and family, drag them away to some far off place, take their freedom away and make them do what you say or else.  Yeah, that's something that is best left within the purview of the bad guys for most groups.  Be sensitive to your players and respect boundaries, but it's a good default assumption that most modern people think slavery is pure evil.

That being said, for most of human history, slavery was just a reality of life.

So if your group is up for it, here are some pointers to keep in mind if you are going to run a setting where slavery is just an accepted part of human society EG the Hyborean Age:

1. NO SEX SLAVES
Putting this first because it's the big one. Most friction at the game table at slavery as a theme likely comes from an assumption that the DM is trying to push sexual themes.  The reality is that, 99.99999% of the time slaves will be used for hard labor.  In a pre-industrial setting like most DnD worlds the only way to really save yourself from doing hard labor is by having someone else do it for you.  Most slaves in your setting will be planting crops or scrubbing floors.  As for the ones who aren't, they're probably the educated slaves teaching the master's children or doing the master's finances.  You can hint at sexual slavery, but unless you are running the game for a very specific type of group, you're best leaving that bit "off screen" as it were.

2. Slaves are Expensive: A common cliche to show how evil the bad guys are is to show them murdering enslaved people left and willy-nilly and cackling with evil glee while they do it.  The truth is, any slaver in a slave based society who does this will likely end up poor.  Slavery, as mentioned above, is about labor.  Dead slaves can't work.  Maimed slaves can't work as well.  Even the most evil overlord is likely to know these things.  He's also likely to be aware of just what a huge investment each slave is.  Imagine everything that goes into clothing, feeding, housing and training a slave.  You've spent all of that gold on something you're just going to murder for speaking out of turn?  No.  Human psychology being what it is, the sunk costs are going to be on your mind at all times.  This goes double for less wealthy families who might only own one or two slaves.

3.  Masters are People To: Most people, the overwhelming majority of people, want to believe that they are basically good people. This includes people who directly exploit others like those who own slaves.  So most Masters are probably decent and polite to their slaves, especially those who are well behaved.  In fact some slaves may be considered part of the family, like a pet.  It might be a very, very hard pill to swallow for a modern audience, but most slave owners were not, in fact, remorseless, evil, barely human monsters.  It's a testament to our ability as humans to rationalize anything.

oggsmash

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2020, 11:50:47 AM »
Interestingly enough in the Hyborian age, Hyborian nations largely do not practice slavery, and Hot, educated, female sex slaves are the most expensive.

SHARK

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2020, 12:34:06 PM »
Greetings!

Well, slaves are utilized for many different things, in various capacities and tasks. While slaves used for heavy labour is certainly significant, the assertion that "The reality is that 99.99999% of the time slaves will be used for hard labour" is quite ridiculous, and unfounded. The real fact of the matter is that slaves are heavily used for sex. I'm sorry if this makes some people squeamish, but it is the historical reality. In every siege and conquest of many cities--whether from the days of the ancient Roman Empire, to the hordes of Genghis Khan and the Mongols, plundering the enemies' women was always a primary motivation. Even later, for example, when the Jin hordes invaded northern China, as Historian Michael Woods notes in The Story of China, during the siege of the northern capital, the invading barbarians especially demanded thousands and thousands of women be turned over to them, the noble women, the women of the imperial family, the thousands of women dancers and musicians--all were to be handed over to the barbarians. Women were their *first priority*. Don't for a moment ever think that plundering conquered women isn't a primary priority, right next to gold.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Ghostmaker

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2020, 02:54:12 PM »
Quote from: SHARK;1129295
Greetings!

Well, slaves are utilized for many different things, in various capacities and tasks. While slaves used for heavy labour is certainly significant, the assertion that "The reality is that 99.99999% of the time slaves will be used for hard labour" is quite ridiculous, and unfounded. The real fact of the matter is that slaves are heavily used for sex. I'm sorry if this makes some people squeamish, but it is the historical reality. In every siege and conquest of many cities--whether from the days of the ancient Roman Empire, to the hordes of Genghis Khan and the Mongols, plundering the enemies' women was always a primary motivation. Even later, for example, when the Jin hordes invaded northern China, as Historian Michael Woods notes in The Story of China, during the siege of the northern capital, the invading barbarians especially demanded thousands and thousands of women be turned over to them, the noble women, the women of the imperial family, the thousands of women dancers and musicians--all were to be handed over to the barbarians. Women were their *first priority*. Don't for a moment ever think that plundering conquered women isn't a primary priority, right next to gold.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Perhaps, but in 99.99999% of cases involving RPGs, it won't be about 'accurate history', it'll be about entering the GM's magical realm.

SHARK

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2020, 02:58:42 PM »
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1129305
Perhaps, but in 99.99999% of cases involving RPGs, it won't be about 'accurate history', it'll be about entering the GM's magical realm.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, that's true, Ghostmaker!:D


Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Hakdov

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2020, 03:03:21 PM »
You could argue that in a high magic setting like D&D usually has that magic makes slavery unnecessary.  Many slave jobs could be done by golems, undead, trained monsters, or permanent enchantments.

Also, as cheap as hirelings are in D&D, why bother with the expense of buying a slave?  They're cheaper to rent.  ;)

RandyB

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2020, 04:38:45 PM »
Quote from: SHARK;1129295
Greetings!

Well, slaves are utilized for many different things, in various capacities and tasks. While slaves used for heavy labour is certainly significant, the assertion that "The reality is that 99.99999% of the time slaves will be used for hard labour" is quite ridiculous, and unfounded. The real fact of the matter is that slaves are heavily used for sex. I'm sorry if this makes some people squeamish, but it is the historical reality. In every siege and conquest of many cities--whether from the days of the ancient Roman Empire, to the hordes of Genghis Khan and the Mongols, plundering the enemies' women was always a primary motivation. Even later, for example, when the Jin hordes invaded northern China, as Historian Michael Woods notes in The Story of China, during the siege of the northern capital, the invading barbarians especially demanded thousands and thousands of women be turned over to them, the noble women, the women of the imperial family, the thousands of women dancers and musicians--all were to be handed over to the barbarians. Women were their *first priority*. Don't for a moment ever think that plundering conquered women isn't a primary priority, right next to gold.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1129305
Perhaps, but in 99.99999% of cases involving RPGs, it won't be about 'accurate history', it'll be about entering the GM's magical realm.

Quote from: SHARK;1129306
Greetings!

*Laughing* Well, that's true, Ghostmaker!:D


Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yup. Some historic realities don't make for effective gaming.

SHARK

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Bow Down To The Yoke! Slave Markets!
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2020, 05:08:27 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129245
I don't, mainly because slavery is something the bad guys engage in, but I might be interested on reading your take for a possible implementation in my totally not Conan game.

Greetings!

Laughing*:D Not Conan games are awesome, brother!

Base Slave Value and Pricing
4,000 SP+1,000 to 4,000 SP; Base Value is thus 5,000 to 8,000 SP.

Percentile Dice Base Modifier
01-25%: +1,000
26-50%: +2,000
51-75%: +3,000
76-00%: +4,000

The Base Slave Value is primarily based on a scale assuming a basic labourer earns roughly 10 SP per day. Roughly 3600 SP per year. Evaluating the base values and price modifiers concerning slaves, most of the lower classes, working classes, and a substantial segment of any kind of crafting or middle class are unlikely to afford owning slaves. Some of course, on occasion, could make such an investment, though those members of these classes would be a decided minority. Far more likely, and prevalent, would be more prosperous professionals, higher placed officers, officials, merchants and farmers, as well as members of the upper echelons, the wealthy elite, merchant princes, great land owners, and the nobility. Such members of these social and economic levels would be more likely to afford a few slaves for domestic purposes, or for light duties, specialized labour, and so on, while more elite members would utilize dozens, hundreds, or thousands of slaves.

Base Value Modifiers

Human Slaves:
01-20%: Cultural Discount: -20% Base Value
21-75%: Standard Base Value
76-90%: +10% Base Value
91-00%: +20% Base Value

Similarly to barbarian humanoids below, different human groups and individuals evaluate different human slaves based on a number of variable factors, ranging from reputation, firsthand experience or knowledge, myths, and other emotional, economic, or even religious considerations. The DM can use a set value, or determine the base value modifier with a percentile dice roll on the table.

Barbarian Humanoid:
01-50%: Racial Discount: -25% Base Value
51-75%: Standard Base Value
76-90%: +10% Base Value
91-00%: +25% Base Value

Barbarian Humanoids can vary significantly in their price, highly variable to market trends, as well as numerous cultural attitudes and perceptions towards particular barbarian humanoid races. Race A may have deep suspicion towards slaves of race A, and hence embrace a distinct negative valuation of such slaves; while Race A and Race B may hold slaves of Race C are especially valuable, and so on. Such modifiers to the base value may thus vary widely depending on the individual slave merchant, what kinds of barbarian humanoid slaves are being sold, where or what markets the barbarian humanoids are being marketed, and then influenced by the knowledge of the attitudes towards such barbarian humanoids from prominent merchants within the particular region or location. Based on such considerations, the DM can simply set a base value modifier for such particular barbarian humanoids, or determine randomly by a percentile dice roll on the table.

Exotic Humanoid:
01-50%: Base Value +10%
51-75%: Base Value +25%
76-90%: Base Value +50%
91-00%: Base Value +100%

Exotic Humanoid are generally valued at premiums considerably higher than standard slave values, from a variety of exotic reasons and attitudes. Halflings, Half Elves, Elves, Half-Demons, Half Celestials, and particular animal-like humanoids can be especially valued for particular kinds of labour, specialized knowledge or craftsmanship, exotic sexual fetishes, or highly desired genetic traits provided to their offspring. The DM can set a particular value modifier for a special race of slave, or simply determine the value from a percentile roll on the table. While base value modifiers for exotic humanoids can be seen as being more stable market-wise, the prices for exotic humanoids can also shift based on the economy, region, or other factors.

Slave's Age Modifier
Young +125%
Adolescent +100%
Adult +20%
Mature Adult -50%
Old -75%

Young and Adolescent slaves are especially valued, as they can more easily be trained and acculturated to the yoke of obedience. In addition, they offer a lifetime of vigorous work and service, and are in the prime of health and potential fertility. Adult slaves are also highly valued, for their strength and fertility, as well as potential skills and learning, though are generally less valued than Young or Adolescent slaves. Mature Adult slaves decline significantly in value, as a reflection of all of the factors of labour, fertility, beauty, lifespan of effort, and capacity to be trained to obedience. Old slaves possess all of the negative factors of Mature Adults, while also being generally weaker, less vigorous, more prone to illness and disease, and distinctly less attractive and appealing.

Knowledge, Skills and Training
Labour Skills +10% Base Value
Crafting Skills +25% Base Value
Professional Knowledge and Skills +40% Base Value
Academic Knowledge +50% Base Value
Entertainer Skills +75% Base Value
Mystical Knowledge and Skills, Exotic Sexual Knowledge and Talents, or Special Social Status, +100% Base Value

Primary Slave Attribute Modifier
Below Average (Score of 8-9, or lower)*: Discount of -25% or more
Average (Score of 10-11): No Modifier
Above Average (Score of 12-13) +10% Base Value
(Score of 14-15) +25% of Base Value
(Score of 16-17) +50% of Base Value
(Score of 18, or higher)* Premium of +100% or more

The Primary Slave Attribute Modifier is focused on the outstanding features and attributes that a buyer seeks to have in a particular kind of slave. For example, a buyer seeking to purchase domestic slaves, for household service, sexual service, breeding, and entertainment, are certainly likely to value an attractive appearance and a higher Charisma. Buyers seeking hard physical labour, will certainly value a high Strength or possibly Constitution. Meanwhile, other buyers, seeking highly educated and skilled slaves, are certainly likely to seek out slaves with high Intelligence or perhaps Wisdom scores. *Note: Scores that are significantly lower in value, will bring an even steeper discount, while a score higher than 18 will surely increase the base value by a huge amount. Certainly, secondary attributes are also valued, and can also have a significant impact on the base value modifier, as also having, for example, multiple attribute scores that are higher or lower. Such influences of secondary or multiple attributes with negative or positive score bonuses should enhance or discount the base value modifier, as deemed appropriate by the DM. These additional considerations are certainly to be realized and appraised by any merchant offering the particular slave for sale.

These are some of the tables and guidelines that I use in my own Thandor Campaign. The tables are detailed in scope enough, to account for all kinds of different cultural and racial slaves, favoured social types, professions, and so on, as well as taking a variety of market forces and trends into consideration.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 08:31:17 PM by SHARK »
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b