Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726Everyone has to answer that for themselves. We all draw the line at different points.

My personal answer is to continue enjoying the original JG products, and if my collection is missing anything, pick it up 2nd hand.

But I'm also going to mock the fuck out of the virtue dogpile.

My thoughts exactly.  It's almost funny to see all the useful idiots tripping over each other to show how virtuous they are.  If you're going to do something, do it.  You don't need to broadcast what a great person you are unless you need others' validation.

Quote from: The Spaniard;1122749My thoughts exactly.  It's almost funny to see all the useful idiots tripping over each other to show how virtuous they are.  If you're going to do something, do it.  You don't need to broadcast what a great person you are unless you need others' validation.

How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?

Quote from: Mistwell;1122752How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?

How is this post not a form of virtue signaling?

And mine!

OH SHIT!!!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726Everyone has to answer that for themselves. We all draw the line at different points.

My personal answer is to continue enjoying the original JG products, and if my collection is missing anything, pick it up 2nd hand.

But I'm also going to mock the fuck out of the virtue dogpile.

Do you think there's any value in denouncing this behavior, e.g. by people who care about the OSR and want to defend it? Or it's so irrelevant and unimpactful (e.g. words vs. deeds) that it should be ignored or mocked at worst?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1122726For me, evil has to be actions, not words, especially not social media idiot babblings.

Humans are tribal. People like their own kind (and in the USA, that's actually more class than race). It's why segregation on college campuses are called "progressive" now. I can't be surprised when people yell out ''My Team Good, Other Team Bad" because that's basic to the species. Should we be beyond skin color? Of course, but we're not.

For me, the surprise with Bledsaw is not his beliefs, but his total idiocy in spewing them online when he's trying to make money in 2020. Plenty of people have horrid beliefs, but most know to shut their piehole online lest it affect their bottom line.

The clown could have posted the same shit (and way worse) under an alias and none of this drama would have happened.

True, especially the bit about tribalism. It's telling how deep and weird this rabbit hole has gotten that the words/deeds divide was pretty far from my mind, even though I care a lot about the freedom of words. Grim and Venger made a point about livelihood loss too that surprised me in a similar way. I guess my takeaway from this is that mobbing has become so commonplace that I treat it as normal and try to put boundaries on how unreasonable the mobbing is, rather than continuing to push back on the idea that it should happen at all. Scary.

Good points, Spinachcat, thanks for your thoughts.

This was not a maybe situation. Nor was it based on a single post or something that happen over a short period of time. After the discovery of additional posts and my conversation with Mr. Bledsaw, it was clear  I was doing business with a person who was a true believer in his bigotry. I acted in accordance with my conscience. Which was to tell him that I would be no longer be doing business with Judges Guild in the future, that I would notify the other licensees of what I found lest they be blindsided.

For many hours afterward and briefly a few days ago, anybody could see what I saw first hand. While they didn't have the benefit of conversing with Mr. Bledsaw, more public posts were found deeper within Mr. Bledsaw timeline. Posts that were worse than what I uncovered. Then Mr. Bledsaw put up his own response a few days which gave readers a glimpse into the conversation I had. The main difference, mine touched on our personal relationship and focused only on the anti-semitic post I found. It wasn't as wide ranging as Mr. Bledsaw's public response.

I knew that in informing the licensees that it would go public and it did. Thus I also posted as I am noted professionally for being a Judges Guild licensee.

From what I observed in following days when individuals talked about the specifics they overwhelmingly reached the same conclusions I have. Which was they no longer wish to do any type of business with Mr. Bledsaw.

Quote from: estar;1122759This was not a maybe situation. Nor was it based on a single post or something that happen over a short period of time. After the discovery of additional posts and my conversation with Mr. Bledsaw, it was clear  I was doing business with a person who was a true believer in his bigotry.

Question that popped up on another fora on this subject.

Before all this were there any indicators of trouble? I get the impression that businesswise there was no hint of this so it pretty much hit alot of folk who worked with Bledsaw II as a surprise?

So will Traveller be next on the hit list of death by association? I have an oooold Traveller booklet and it lists as the writers Bill and Pixie Bledsaw? It is not a Judges Guild product. But we all know how these purity death spirals tend to play out.

Quote from: Omega;1122769Question that popped up on another fora on this subject.

Before all this were there any indicators of trouble? I get the impression that businesswise there was no hint of this so it pretty much hit alot of folk who worked with Bledsaw II as a surprise?

That is a good question. I can't speak for the other people who worked with Mr. Bledsaw however for me he was always polite and cordial throughout the ten+ years we been talking over the internet or phone. I knew that he was generally pro-Republican from what popped up on my feed. So I deliberately avoided talking politics, especially because I was relatively small fish in terms of being a licensee. He gave me a license instead of paying me for the map CSSK and it was a pretty big ask at the time. So I avoided any mention of politics or religions. I knew from his post in the wake of his father's death that he was pretty religious as well. There other things that popped up from his feed but nothing stood out.

So when the one popped up I started looking. I looked some more after my post to see how I missed it. The answer is because they are interspersed infrequently enough between his regular political, family, and other posts. That until that Saturday they didn't pop up on my feed. Then quantum dice rolled, one popped up and that was that. Then the events unfolded as I described in my statement and in previous posts here.

So that what happened to me. In general I would say for somebody else to be aware of what going on they would have actively browse his timeline. Maybe go back a few pages.

I will say that his son Robert Bledsaw III timeline was odd for me. I distinctly remember browsing it during the kickstarter before the debacle. For example he had a post looking at my maps with his baby. Then when I started reading about how RB3 timeline was a dumpster fire I went on and it was a completely different place filled with political and bigoted post that weren't there before. Way worse than his father's timeline.

Quote from: estar;1122772That is a good question. I can't speak for the other people who worked with Mr. Bledsaw however for me he was always polite and cordial throughout the ten+ years we been talking over the internet or phone. I knew that he was generally pro-Republican from what popped up on my feed. So I deliberately avoided talking politics, especially because I was relatively small fish in terms of being a licensee. He gave me a license instead of paying me for the map CSSK and it was a pretty big ask at the time. So I avoided any mention of politics or religions. I knew from his post in the wake of his father's death that he was pretty religious as well. There other things that popped up from his feed but nothing stood out.

So when the one popped up I started looking. I looked some more after my post to see how I missed it. The answer is because they are interspersed infrequently enough between his regular political, family, and other posts. That until that Saturday they didn't pop up on my feed. Then quantum dice rolled, one popped up and that was that. Then the events unfolded as I described in my statement and in previous posts here.

So that what happened to me. In general I would say for somebody else to be aware of what going on they would have actively browse his timeline. Maybe go back a few pages.

I will say that his son Robert Bledsaw III timeline was odd for me. I distinctly remember browsing it during the kickstarter before the debacle. For example he had a post looking at my maps with his baby. Then when I started reading about how RB3 timeline was a dumpster fire I went on and it was a completely different place filled with political and bigoted post that weren't there before. Way worse than his father's timeline.

I think Facebook made an adjustment to their search algorithm, and more posts showed up in your timeline from his feed. It wasn't that he had not posted before, it's just that Facebbok did not automatically drop the questionable posts (especially if they were questionable)  into your feed, on purpose! Well, at least until they adjusted their search and linking algorithm.

Quote from: Omega;1122770So will Traveller be next on the hit list of death by association? I have an oooold Traveller booklet and it lists as the writers Bill and Pixie Bledsaw? It is not a Judges Guild product. But we all know how these purity death spirals tend to play out.

What will probably save the Traveller stuff is that I think Marc Miller got the rights lock stock and barrel. And he's had them for years. It may kill any ability to ever see the Group One Traveller stuff though.

Quote from: estar;1122759From what I observed in following days when individuals talked about the specifics they overwhelmingly reached the same conclusions I have. Which was they no longer wish to do any type of business with Mr. Bledsaw.

In our age of (selective) outrage and witchhunts, its the best business choice.

Estar, you were put in a terrible position with no winning moves. You went with transparency and clarity about the situation and your response as a related business. It won't save you from the purity mob, but reasonable people will respect your stance. I certainly do.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1122727I was going to buy some of this Coleslaw guy's stuff, if any of it is any good.

Coleslaw Senior (who is dead) was the founder of Judges Guild and produced the original stuff in the 70s.

My favorite JG products were PEGASUS magazine. Ebay is your best bet, but shipping to Oz is psycho expensive. If you're interested, set an eBay alert for local sellers to keep the shipping costs sane.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1122754Do you think there's any value in denouncing this behavior, e.g. by people who care about the OSR and want to defend it? Or it's so irrelevant and unimpactful (e.g. words vs. deeds) that it should be ignored or mocked at worst?

I don't know if there is long term value in denouncing behaviors beyond signalling tribal virtue. Fuck Libtards! Fuck Trumpers! Fuck Bad Team! Perhaps there's individual catharsis. Or maybe I'm very wrong and denouncement has great value that echoes in the culture. I don't know.

Perhaps denouncing had more value in the past when incidents of outrage were less common, but in the age of social media, they seem so commonplace. So we denounce this week, denounce next week and then next month, will we remember all our denouncements from a year ago?

I've read arguments that these incidents will happen less as the "ok boomers" die off, but there seems to be no age limit on social media "WTF did you post that" meltdowns. Oversharing with a lack of filter seems to exist in every generation.

Thanks, Spinny - that JG stuff is pricey! There's a lot floating around in Oz, though, I'll grab some if it looks good.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1122791Perhaps there's individual catharsis.

I'm reading Mistakes Were Made: But Not By Me, which is all about how people resolve the cognitive dissonance between "I am a good and competent person" and "I fucked up." One of the studies they mention was of some students, brought in ostensibly for some other test, who the researcher insults a bit while setting things up. Obviously, everyone's heart rate and blood pressure went up while being abused. But after the experiment, half of them had the opportunity to complain to the researcher's supervisor, half didn't. Did the ones who got to vent feel better afterwards? Nope - their heart rates and blood pressure went back up, and they felt more lasting hostility towards the insulter.

It turns out the British were right, it's better to bottle it up. If you express your anger, you actually feel more angry afterwards.

Or we can look closer to our forum home. Pundit's been venting angrily for more than a decade now. Does he seem less angry than when he started?

A lesson there for old Coleslaw, I'd say.

In ten years after his transitioning and he starts an anti-bigotry non-profit will all be forgiven?

Quote from: Gagarth;1122800In ten years after his transitioning and he starts an anti-bigotry non-profit will all be forgiven?

Apologize for what exactly?. I believe in two genders yet if someone wants to transitions more power to them. Your really trying to compare someone transitioning being the same as racist, homophobic, anti-semitic. Were you in accident or something in the last few days and suffering from a major concussion or took some bad drugs. WTF transphobic much. I can't believe that even needs to be pointed out.

Yeah their is a major difference like several galaxies worth of difference between someone transitioning into another gender and two horrible individuals who should know better and really should not be posting some equaly horribly anti-semitic and racist comments. For what so they could the equivalent racist virtue signaling while also destroying Bob Sr legacy and perhaps bring their company into ruin. People today refuse to learn an important life skill. Sometimes one needs to think before they talking or posting online and sometimes they need to shut the fuck up and not make an already volatile situation even more explosive.

To equate transitioning being the same as being racist and an anti-semtite I suggest going on Google and looking up a 5 star reviewed mental health care specialist. That to me is insanity. Seriously get some professional help because you need it.

Quote from: Mistwell;1122752How is your post not another form of you virtue signaling?

You might need a refresher on the meaning of virtue signalling.