So, I was aware of the GW game Necromunda, but considered it that skirmish game where dudes with orange mohawks blast each other with shotguns and has some RPG aspects like levels and skills.

I saw the latest starter box, Hive War, and there's a faction on the box that isn't a guy with an orange mohawk and a shotgun.



And I'm like, hmm. those guys look interesting, and I do a bit of reading on the different factions in Necromunda.
It got me thinking, there's factions that are big and tough, and factions that are wiry and sneaky, and oh hey, those seem a lot like racial archetypes from RPGs.
What think you? Are factions a viable alternative to races for some settings? The thug faction recruits tough dudes, and so they get a bonus to STR to represent this, etc.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 25, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
So, I was aware of the GW game Necromunda, but considered it that skirmish game where dudes with orange mohawks blast each other with shotguns and has some RPG aspects like levels and skills.

I saw the latest starter box, Hive War, and there's a faction on the box that isn't a guy with an orange mohawk and a shotgun.



And I'm like, hmm. those guys look interesting, and I do a bit of reading on the different factions in Necromunda.
It got me thinking, there's factions that are big and tough, and factions that are wiry and sneaky, and oh hey, those seem a lot like racial archetypes from RPGs.
What think you? Are factions a viable alternative to races for some settings? The thug faction recruits tough dudes, and so they get a bonus to STR to represent this, etc.

IIRC, faction/gang affiliation in Necromunda didn't immediately make your dudes any different from the dudes of another faction/gang affiliation.  What they did is indicate what kinds of advances you could roll for. In short, they were more like classes than races, with some factions being more Rogue, others more fighter, and others more techy (artificer?) But only after game play served to advance them. At the start they were just hangers, juves, and heavies. There were rare exceptions (like the mutant scavvies), but this was basically race as class.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 25, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
So, I was aware of the GW game Necromunda, but considered it that skirmish game where dudes with orange mohawks blast each other with shotguns and has some RPG aspects like levels and skills.

I saw the latest starter box, Hive War, and there's a faction on the box that isn't a guy with an orange mohawk and a shotgun.



And I'm like, hmm. those guys look interesting, and I do a bit of reading on the different factions in Necromunda.
It got me thinking, there's factions that are big and tough, and factions that are wiry and sneaky, and oh hey, those seem a lot like racial archetypes from RPGs.
What think you? Are factions a viable alternative to races for some settings? The thug faction recruits tough dudes, and so they get a bonus to STR to represent this, etc.

Hmm, well, you got me thinking about the gangs in Cyberpunk 2077.
While cyberpunk have its own RPG with its own rules, Im thinking how they would translate into a d20 system

Moxes are all girls (maybe a few male or trans prostitutes, but I havent really looked for any). So they'd get charisma
Animals are a brutal gang where the strongest rule, so + strength I guess?
Voodoo boys are netrunners. So they get Intelligence
Tyger claws are asians so of course they get Dexterity and martial arts
Maelstrom are to a large part cyborgs so Constitution?
I dont know which gang would fit Wisdom best, its not like the latin gang or the 5th street show any greater qualities in this area other than any other gang. Nomads would be my best bet for a +Wis, you dont last long in the wilderness without learning from your mistakes.

I've considered using origin as a replacement for race, which I suppose could also apply to factions as well, or perhaps cultures. In a world were everyone is human characters from different backgrounds could get different starting abilities (including Attribute/Ability Score bonuses) to reflect their upbringing or style. Like for example, in fantasy worlds, I've considered dividing humans into Barbarians (high Str or Con; extra outdoors skills), Imperials (high Cha; extra language and communication skills) and Erudite (high Int; extra knowledge/academic skills). A similar treatment could be used for factions or prominent groups in the game world, particularly if they embody a certain archetype or focus.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 25, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
And I'm like, hmm. those guys look interesting, and I do a bit of reading on the different factions in Necromunda.
It got me thinking, there's factions that are big and tough, and factions that are wiry and sneaky, and oh hey, those seem a lot like racial archetypes from RPGs.
What think you? Are factions a viable alternative to races for some settings? The thug faction recruits tough dudes, and so they get a bonus to STR to represent this, etc.

yeah it could work okay, I remember the 3.x warmachine book doing that with nationality instead of faction, but that had some weird accidental ethnic shit going on so faction makes more sense. could help a lot with people thinking human-only games are boring since there's no differences.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 25, 2021, 11:47:39 PM
I've considered using origin as a replacement for race, which I suppose could also apply to factions as well, or perhaps cultures. In a world were everyone is human characters from different backgrounds could get different starting abilities (including Attribute/Ability Score bonuses) to reflect their upbringing or style. Like for example, in fantasy worlds, I've considered dividing humans into Barbarians (high Str or Con; extra outdoors skills), Imperials (high Cha; extra language and communication skills) and Erudite (high Int; extra knowledge/academic skills). A similar treatment could be used for factions or prominent groups in the game world, particularly if they embody a certain archetype or focus.

Judging by tech level:

Savage (Stone age or thereabouts)
Barbarian (Bronce Age)
Nomadic? (?)
Civilized (your Imperials)
Decadent (Civilized but giving in to new more virile civilizations)
Degenerate (Think the worst exceses of Rome before the fall and then some just because)

This gives you not only mechanical advantages on certain tasks, but also prevents someone from culture X from being lets say a diplomat because lying is not something they do in his culture.

Now add Habitat:
Jungle, Savana, Forest, Mountains, cold, desert, etc.

Because a savage from the jungle will know jack shit about the savana and viceversa.

Introduce types of religion/government

Savages live in tribes with a warrior chief or an elderly council?
Barbarians have chieftains and a chieftain council, maybe a king?
Nomads live in tribal unitis, with a chieftain and don't recognize the authority of the civilized fucks?
Civilized live in cities/towns have kings and nobility (your typical medieval fucks)
Decadents live like civilized but have lost knowledge and the will to fight for their shit.
Degenerates live like hedonists and fuck anything not nailed to a wall and sometimes even that too. Knowledge is lost, practice dark sorcery... Maybe are devolving into man-apes?

That's pretty much how my Totally NOT Conan WIP Game handles it.

Only other inteligent species descend from X and are evil, because I say so and because fuck the wokescolds.

probably want to pull from RQ/Mytrhas for culture levels for that, not a bad idea.

Perhaps habitat should matter somewhat less as tech level increases?

Quote from: HappyDaze on April 26, 2021, 01:26:34 AM
Perhaps habitat should matter somewhat less as tech level increases?

Oh, totally, but still, what does a civilized fuck from the city know about surviving in the jungle? Teh answer is ofcourse about 99.99% of them know jack and shit about surviving anywhere but in ther home turf.

Of course once you have acces to our levels of tech, then things start to shift, as long as you have a way to get GPS info you know where to go. But without the internet would you know which cactus you can eat, which will get you high and which might kill you? Agains most of us won't because we're soft fucks from the city or because we live somewhere where surviving involves knowing other shit but not that.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2021, 12:33:59 AM
Judging by tech level:

Savage (Stone age or thereabouts)
Barbarian (Bronce Age)
Nomadic? (?)
Civilized (your Imperials)
Decadent (Civilized but giving in to new more virile civilizations)
Degenerate (Think the worst exceses of Rome before the fall and then some just because)

This gives you not only mechanical advantages on certain tasks, but also prevents someone from culture X from being lets say a diplomat because lying is not something they do in his culture.

Xoth does exactly this with its 'cultures' https://xoth.net/publishing/freebies/world_of_xoth_players_guide_5e.pdf

eg

Decadent
Great civilizations reach their peak and eventually start to
decline. Such fallen empires are ruled by jaded nobles, corrupt
priests and wicked slave-traders. Demon-worship, human
sacrifice and drug abuse is all too common in these cultures.
Decadent people have the following cultural traits:
Ability Adjustment: +2 to Charisma
Insidious: Gain advantage on Deception and Stealth skill
checks, and an additional +1d6 sneak attack damage if you
have the sneak attack class ability.
Jaded: Gain advantage on saving throws against poison.
Corrupt: Suffer disadvantage on Wisdom saving throws.

Degenerate
The last survivors of decadent civilizations start to feud
over dwindling resources, or are driven away by stronger
cultures. Fleeing into the wilderness, or deep underground
beneath their ruins, they start to inbreed and devolve into
something no longer entirely human. Degenerates may
outwardly resemble savages, but they carry the evil taint of
fallen empires.
Degenerates have the following cultural traits:
Ability Adjustment: +2 to Constitution
Nocturnal: You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you
as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light.
You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Ferocious: When you score a critical hit with a melee
weapon attack, you can roll one of the weapon's damage dice
one additional time and add it to the extra damage of the
critical hit.
Unwholesome: Degenerates always have a physical
deformity or a mental illness, caused by inbreeding, that sets
them apart from other humans. This unwholesomeness can
never be fully concealed. You, and anyone you associate with,
suffer disadvantage on Deception and Persuasion checks
(except when interacting with other degenerates), and the
initial attitude of persons from other cultures will always start
at Hostile.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 25, 2021, 07:00:12 PM
So, I was aware of the GW game Necromunda, but considered it that skirmish game where dudes with orange mohawks blast each other with shotguns and has some RPG aspects like levels and skills.

I saw the latest starter box, Hive War, and there's a faction on the box that isn't a guy with an orange mohawk and a shotgun.



And I'm like, hmm. those guys look interesting, and I do a bit of reading on the different factions in Necromunda.
It got me thinking, there's factions that are big and tough, and factions that are wiry and sneaky, and oh hey, those seem a lot like racial archetypes from RPGs.
What think you? Are factions a viable alternative to races for some settings? The thug faction recruits tough dudes, and so they get a bonus to STR to represent this, etc.

  I would say absolutely.  Culture influences how the people in that culture function and can over time influence some physical traits.  If a culture absolutely values strength/toughness, well it stands to reason the people who get to reproduce more consistently (due to higher status in the faction) will have the traits valued more highly, same for technical prowess or intellect, coordination/grace/cunning etc.    Historically, especially in the ancient world where there were developed civilizations that had limited contact with the other big empires, they tended to value some slightly different traits, and their exemplars of their factions tended to embody the traits most valued.  As technology advances you could say some of these traits may even be further enhanced past their rival factions (big strong guys are "glanded" to the max on roids, the tech savy have various implants to allow tech interfacing, the graceful use implants to augment what was already exceptional, etc.   

   In many ways a culture/faction representing certain traits could be more "true" than a race representing certain traits, as over long periods of time the society of the faction has enhanced or encouraged the traits to be more prevalent, even if in a somewhat passive way.