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Author Topic: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.  (Read 6997 times)

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2021, 04:27:39 PM »
"We are only interested in what happens publicly when looking at honor, so what happens when women are not watching doesn’t count."

Wow. You know, this reminds me of my own conviction about why slash/yaoi fanfic is so popular among female fans: I honestly think it's because most of them don't really have a clue what actual male friendships are like.

If these designers think the only thing driving masculine competition is winning the approval of women, a similar comprehension gap seems to be in play. (Not that earning female approval isn't a motive; it's just not the only or necessarily most important one.)
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2021, 04:45:46 PM »
"We are only interested in what happens publicly when looking at honor, so what happens when women are not watching doesn’t count."

Wow. You know, this reminds me of my own conviction about why slash/yaoi fanfic is so popular among female fans: I honestly think it's because most of them don't really have a clue what actual male friendships are like.

If these designers think the only thing driving masculine competition is winning the approval of women, a similar comprehension gap seems to be in play. (Not that earning female approval isn't a motive; it's just not the only or necessarily most important one.)

I'm convinced these approaches are mainly targeted at men who have some element of self-loathing of their own masculinity, and unrealistic perceptions of women.

To mangle a feminist quote, in the game of Feminism, women aren't the other team, they're the ball.
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Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2021, 05:58:57 PM »
I'm convinced that no one ever actually plays these games.

Probably only masochists and fools trying to look kool in front of their own crowd of sjws.
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jhkim

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2021, 07:35:12 PM »
I'm convinced that no one ever actually plays these games.

There are some liberal-themed story games that at least get played a fair amount at least within the small niche of storygamers. Examples of these might be Night Witches (a game about female Soviet bomber pilots in WWII) and Bluebeard's Bride (a feminist fairy tale horror game). They don't get played very widely - but that's true of nearly all small-press games.

On the other hand, there are some that as far as I can tell get talked about more than played. Steal Away Jordan and Kagematsu got a lot of attention, but I haven't seen them played even in my story game circles. And then some don't even get talked about much, and are basically just someone's pet project.

Null42

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2021, 09:12:55 AM »
I'm convinced that no one ever actually plays these games.

There are some liberal-themed story games that at least get played a fair amount at least within the small niche of storygamers. Examples of these might be Night Witches (a game about female Soviet bomber pilots in WWII) and Bluebeard's Bride (a feminist fairy tale horror game). They don't get played very widely - but that's true of nearly all small-press games.

On the other hand, there are some that as far as I can tell get talked about more than played. Steal Away Jordan and Kagematsu got a lot of attention, but I haven't seen them played even in my story game circles. And then some don't even get talked about much, and are basically just someone's pet project.

I've heard it said even the people who design these indie games play a lot of D&D, just because of network effects. Wonder if it's true. It is funny how after 45 years D&D remains the industry leader by a mile even as every hardcore gamer can come up with 50 things wrong with it.

I kind of wonder if a game can be an art form even if it's not played. Certainly the creativity that goes into a lot of these is pretty impressive, politics aside.

jhkim

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2021, 11:23:15 AM »
I've heard it said even the people who design these indie games play a lot of D&D, just because of network effects. Wonder if it's true. It is funny how after 45 years D&D remains the industry leader by a mile even as every hardcore gamer can come up with 50 things wrong with it.

I kind of wonder if a game can be an art form even if it's not played. Certainly the creativity that goes into a lot of these is pretty impressive, politics aside.

Well, I administered the Indie RPG Awards from 2006 to 2018, and I've had plenty of interactions with many authors. I'd estimate maybe a quarter of the authors play some D&D - though mostly they're playing their own games. I'd say about half of them aren't into any traditional RPGs, only indie games.

Almost all games are played by someone - even if it's just the creator. (Though there are exceptions.) I'd say it's still an art form in the same sense as making your own paintings at home for your own enjoyment is an art form.

Melan

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2021, 11:30:08 AM »
Mission accomplished: I certainly wouldn't accuse the creators of "toxic masculinity".  ;)

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shuddemell

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2021, 02:52:35 PM »
I'm convinced that no one ever actually plays these games.

Well, if they do, it's only once.
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Svenhelgrim

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2021, 05:42:52 PM »
No GM, no dice, no cards.  And it is, of course, coming soon to Kickstarter.

I'm sure there are people who will greatly enjoy this sort of thing, but I'd rather spend my ever-dwindling RPG time having some fun instead of getting lectured.

It will be highly entertaining to watch this thing flop.

Kyle Aaron

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2021, 06:41:55 PM »
My point in including it here was to illustrate how it was the old woman who murdered the slave girl.
Of course. And in the modern day, it's women who insist on and carry out female genital mutilation in sub-saharan Africa. And it's men who egg on a man to get into a fight, or rob someone or whatever. In every society in history, the policing of male behaviour is largely carried out by men, and women's largely by women.

So the idea that masculine "honour" only exists in the physical presence of women is a nonsense the authour must have got from some incel forum. And this is the first problem with doing roleplaying games as social and historical education: the authour rarely knows anything about society or history. And the second problem is of course that it's boring and cringey.
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Jaeger

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2021, 03:58:20 AM »
"We are only interested in what happens publicly when looking at honor, so what happens when women are not watching doesn’t count."

Wow. You know, this reminds me of my own conviction about why slash/yaoi fanfic is so popular among female fans: I honestly think it's because most of them don't really have a clue what actual male friendships are like.


Ding, ding, ding, ding...

And we have a winner!


Blood Feud seems like a funny idea, but I doubt it will be able to reach the same levels of hilarity as:

Dungeon Bitches
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dyingstylishlygames/dungeon-bitches-a-queer-ttrpg/
"Why Bitches?
In short, because ‘Bitch’ is a word thrown at women who refuse to be compliant or subservient, and we wanted to embrace that. In this game, all player characters are Bitches – they’re women who will no longer sit down and shut up and do as they’re told. And in a certain kind of horrible patriarchal society, there’s no room for that sort of woman."



We are now at a point where these people are making their own SJW parody RPG's...
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Slambo

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2021, 12:04:10 PM »
Not as bad as Thirsty Sword Lesbians

This Ends Tonight

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2021, 04:53:39 PM »
"I'm going to teach you all the horrors of toxic masculinity by role-playing as badass, muscular, axe wielding, alpha male psychopaths, who do what they want, when they want, surrounded by women who necessarily know their place as subservient wives and daughters, in a patriarchal, totally unfair society!"

I do believe you all hit the mark saying this stuff is for self-loathing men. More specifically, men who are terrible at being men and therefore hate all things men. We don't live in a world where you're forced to be many things just by birth, but like if we did, and you were born into the basketball tribe and had to play basketball everyday... if you sucked at basketball and got dunked on, smacked around on pick plays, people talked trash in your face all day, you would despise basketball with a passion. They want a performative, public way to demonstrate their hatred of this thing they fail at.

Altheus

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2021, 05:15:42 PM »
"I'm going to teach you all the horrors of toxic masculinity by role-playing as badass, muscular, axe wielding, alpha male psychopaths, who do what they want, when they want, surrounded by women who necessarily know their place as subservient wives and daughters, in a patriarchal, totally unfair society!"

I do believe you all hit the mark saying this stuff is for self-loathing men. More specifically, men who are terrible at being men and therefore hate all things men. We don't live in a world where you're forced to be many things just by birth, but like if we did, and you were born into the basketball tribe and had to play basketball everyday... if you sucked at basketball and got dunked on, smacked around on pick plays, people talked trash in your face all day, you would despise basketball with a passion. They want a performative, public way to demonstrate their hatred of this thing they fail at.

Norse women often held status and had a great deal of influence, could own property and generally had a pretty good deal for the viking period (863-1066).

Played to the hilt with the right sharp tongued, playful, women involved this game sounds like a right laugh. Swigging horns of mead, telling tales of ones deeds without coming across as a braggart, engaging in friendly contests with one-another, feasting while being served by the finest slaves taken in raids.


robertliguori

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Re: Blood Feud - A viking RPG about Toxic Masculinity and its effects.
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2021, 11:10:25 PM »
I confess a sense of morbid curiosity for how the mechanics, such as they are, would actually shake out.  Are some people permanently playing women? Does everyone have a male and female character? What happens when the Council of Women votes against a particular male character, and the rest of the male characters decide to just Strike a Bunch of Deadly Blows and become VGTOWs?  Is that a victory condition?

I kind of feel that this is an interesting intuition pump, because it gets at some stuff accidentally.  If honor, as conceived of by the game, is solely actions done by men performatively in front of women, then there is no actual-honor dishonor in being dishonorable.  And if the game doesn't actually assess consequences for running out of honor points, then watching the players divide into "I must play these complicated social games, for from them I derive my worth!" and "Nah, gonna fell some trees for my longhouse, plan an epic fishing trip to take full advantage of the tides and seasonal winds, spend three hours a day chopping wood for the winter every day in summer, you and your gossip-circle can do whatever the fuck you want." would be instructive.