Quote from: Caesar SlaadIt's swinethink to insist that statting or not statting your deities in somehow inherently detrimental to your game, for any value of "you".

In your game... do what works best for the game you are trying to make. :cool:

Exactly.

For my money, statting up deities is entirely appropriate for Planescape, where they're just yet another bunch of powerful dudes on the Outer Planes. It is less appropriate for, say, a game where the deities are distant, abstract, mystical entities.

Coincidently, the Godzilla Gaming Podcast just released their latest episode (issue? show?) and it's dedicated to Planescape.  They do a pretty thorough review which is very descriptive.  It kind of fired up my old-school gaming synapses.  The boxed set does sound like it looks really cool.  Then they have an interview with Monte Cook, who contributed a lot to the later books in the line.

You can find it here:
http://www.godzillagamingpodcast.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=331341

Quote from: Caesar SlaadIt's swinethink to insist that statting or not statting your deities in somehow inherently detrimental to your game, for any value of "you".

In your game... do what works best for the game you are trying to make. :cool:

I agree. I figure it like this: let gods be statted for those who want to use such stats, and those who don't want to use 'em can ignore 'em. I think where some games, like D&D 3e, for example, fall short is that such books often lean far too heavily in one direction. 3e's Deities & Demigods used a lot of space just for stats (and how to generate such stats), and didn't really provide any good, substantive insight into constructing churches, ways of worshiping, or doctrine. The real world myth cycles covered in the book didn't really cover any of that. I'd have paid more for a book that include all that and the stats...

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI agree. I figure it like this: let gods be statted for those who want to use such stats, and those who don't want to use 'em can ignore 'em.

This has always been my position on the issue. As a rule I will NOT use the stats for deities. But my way of thinking is: why would you want to limit the options? If you include the stat, then GMs can choose to use them or not use them as they see fit.

CoC D20 was brilliant in this regard, because in the main text it made clear that the Mythos Deities were unstoppable forces; but then it included the stats in the appendix all the same.

RPGPundit

By the way, the gods in Planescape do not have stats, as says the book On Hollowed Ground.

The book is also clear that no player will ever see a god face to face (unless of course it manifests through an avatar). The only exception to this rule is its highest proxies (and these will be, most of time, NPCs anyway).

Planescape sucks?  Looks like I gots me a list of names for my flamethrower!

PS is still THE bar for what constitutes an amazing RPG setting.   The depth of flavor and the new ways of looking at D&D gameplay were simply amazing.  But it was too "not LotR" for most D&Ders.   I was thrilled that finally someone made a setting that was not like anything I had read about or seen before.  

As for the statting of gods, that totally depends on the setting for me.   Some settings, I want invulnerable immortals who can't be affected by anything.  Some settings, I want 1000 HP avatars walking around the world waiting to get whacked by PCs.

Quote from: David RMaybe your D&D games . Of course your Swine-ish thinking is wrong. WFRP , Midnight even LotR don't stat up their dieties. If you think every aspect of the game should be mechanically represented....:forge:

Regards,
David R

But hey stats their clerics and trought clerics, dieties are sort of stated... so every game in existence that contains religion is inherently swinish...

Quote from: SpinachcatAs for the statting of gods, that totally depends on the setting for me.   Some settings, I want invulnerable immortals who can't be affected by anything.  Some settings, I want 1000 HP avatars walking around the world waiting to get whacked by PCs.

And in yet other settings, gods are simply something that people believe in even if there are no signs of their presence in the world, so that your epic warrior can scream himself hoarse at the heavens and there's still no guarantee that anyone's listening.

Quote from: FritzsBut hey stats their clerics and trought clerics, dieties are sort of stated... so every game in existence that contains religion is inherently swinish...

Stick around here long enough and you will notice the same two or three people stamping the term Swine on just about anything.

Regards,
David R

Incidentally, in case you haven't caught the news, it appears that Planescape will be resurrected for the fourth edition of D&D as a limited series of three books, along with other campaign settings from the past such as Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun.

Quote from: GrimGentIncidentally, in case you haven't caught the news, it appears that Planescape will be resurrected for the fourth edition of D&D as a limited series of three books, along with other campaign settings from the past such as Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun.

I heard that too. I hope they don't spoil it.

Quote from: RPGPunditThis has always been my position on the issue. As a rule I will NOT use the stats for deities. But my way of thinking is: why would you want to limit the options? If you include the stat, then GMs can choose to use them or not use them as they see fit.

CoC D20 was brilliant in this regard, because in the main text it made clear that the Mythos Deities were unstoppable forces; but then it included the stats in the appendix all the same.

RPGPundit

What I liked about CoCd20 (among many things) was that it essentially acknowledged that Cthulhu & Co. were unbeatable by the typical Lovecraft character, but not necessarily the typical sword & sorcery character. Most Lovecraft characters - scratch that; all Lovecraft characters - were bookish milquetoasts who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag and had the steely resolve of a Barney Fife. It's all about context.

Quote from: GrimGentIncidentally, in case you haven't caught the news, it appears that Planescape will be resurrected for the fourth edition of D&D as a limited series of three books, along with other campaign settings from the past such as Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun.

Quibble: the Wizards folks on ENWorld have said that that's just the list of settings which they are considering publishing using the three-book model (which they intend to stick to, even for mad-popular settings like Forgotten Realms... though I strongly suspect they'll end up caving and putting out more material for FR anyway). They make no guarantees that they'll end up developing any of them.

That said, a three-book treatment of Planescape would be interesting. They're already doing a separate Manual of the Planes for 4E, so high-level exploration of the Outer Planes is already covered; I guess they'll focus strongly on Sigil for the PS material and let the Manual of the Planes cover realms beyond Sigil.

Incidentally, so far as I can make out the three-book model consists of Campaign Guide (for DMs), Player's Guide (for players), and a reasonably substantial adventure (the Realms one is meant to take PCs from 2nd level to 5th level). I'm quite interested to see how that pans out.

Quote from: WarthurQuibble: the Wizards folks on ENWorld have said that that's just the list of settings which they are considering publishing using the three-book model (which they intend to stick to, even for mad-popular settings like Forgotten Realms... though I strongly suspect they'll end up caving and putting out more material for FR anyway).

Well, yes, which would be why I said that it appears to be the case. At this point there's already quite a bit of reliable information about the new edition, but still pretty much more up in the air. (Also, even WW has been breaking away from their recent model of limited lines, due to demand.)