As much as I firmly believe that the release of Heroes Unlimited is the point at which Palladium took a nose dive there is a lot to like about the set up.

First off, character creation by origin type with different origins giving radically different capabilities.  Magic is magic and technology is technology here and they look nothing alike.  HU really manages to be ahead of the comics in presenting plausible hardware (as opposed to Hardware characters).  In old comics technology may as well be magic, in new ones not so much.  The subsystems are all interesting.  I've always wished that Rifts offered an expanded high tech version of the vehicle design rules.

Mechanically, HU is a big pile of suck.  This is the point when Palladium added the physical skills that have muddied and spoiled everything since.  This is when they gave humans SDC (wtf?).  And yet the only way to get a knockout is on a natural 18-20 on a too hit roll.  Otherwise you just beat people to death.  Okay actually, in some ways that would be perfect for The Authority or The Ultimates.

I've run it, and had fun with it in the past.

One of the biggest hurdles I've found is the disparity of power between some power types. Energy Expulsion, has no "cost" to activate. But Psi and magic do (in 2E Revised..) Psi's have very narrow Psionic abilities derived from Palladium's house system and not so much from comics. The same with magic.

It could be a wonderful, low powered, superhero game. If it ditch some of the excessively powerful powers (Invulnerability, Body Of Metal, ) but as it stands there is no real comparison between a Hunter class, and say a Mutant with body of metal. The Hunter class, will always be overpowered.

Now that being said, since it has its limited magic, limited Psi, and other limits, if they would cater to that, and toss in a setting, it could be a very nice game.

It isn't really based on comics which for any game whose primary source material is comics, that's a problem.

Mind you, again, I've had fun with the game. Others have mentioned other flaws, and mostly I agree with them.

Ok, let's not be silly here. Heroes Unlimited is a worse game, for sure, than Mutants and Masterminds.  But its not a difficult to understand game. Its much easier to get the rules (especially character creation) and how they work in HU than in M&M.

RPGPundit

It's my belief that "effects based" systems are the main reason superhero games aren't more popular.  Much like "object oriented programming" largely put an end to doing your own programming.

They're both very rational approaches to the problems they tackle but the mental gymnastics involved tend to make them inaccessible to those who aren't obsessed with the functions of the system.

Quote from: David JohansenIt's my belief that "effects based" systems are the main reason superhero games aren't more popular.  Much like "object oriented programming" largely put an end to doing your own programming.

I'd say there's at least a dozen good reasons why superhero games aren't more popular.  The medium is IMO terrible for trying to replicate as a RPG - huge disparities in power levels, non-adventuring story structure, hugely inconsistent source material, extremely difficult to model combat to the source material correctly, etc.

Which isn't to say that some people don't enjoy playing them.  It's just that supers games have a lot more stacked against them than other genres do.

Quote from: SilverlionNow that being said, since it has its limited magic, limited Psi, and other limits, if they would cater to that, and toss in a setting, it could be a very nice game.

It isn't really based on comics which for any game whose primary source material is comics, that's a problem.

See, this may be part of the issue for me. I do better with books that have setting bits that allow me to visualize the rules flowing together. Just a system book always gives me fits, writing or reading.

Mind, I also think a lot of the problems were organization, which I consider part of the rules.

Thanks,
Bill

Just to counter all the "M&MM is better than HU" opinions, I'll say this- I've had a lot of fun with Heroes Unlimited- both as on it's own and as a supplement to other Palladium rpgs.  Mutants & Master Minds on the other hand.....eh.  I've never gotten the chance to play, but I heard lots of great things about it online and so looked at it in the store several times.  It never grabbed me at all.  It came across as dry and simply didn't click for me- of course I've had that same reaction to pretty much everything that is "d20".

I'll chime in with some love for HU. Then again, I tend to stick to 'traditional supers' rather than magic/psi/whatever.

As far as that goes, even selecting your 'origin' for supers is almost extra: its genre emulation of a sort. In reality you can just assign a number of powers to everyone, or roll on one of the typical (and mostly identical) random tables for that.

Cybernetics suck ass, they aren't on par with being unaugmented, much less being superhuman.  Robotics seem like they can work, and unpowered people are the opposite spectrum from the megahero (the Superman of the book).


The biggest key to working through it is to realize you either have to tolerate wild power imbalances (the Old Master class, for example will never level... but has no superpowers...) or just cherrypick what you want to use. Its like a candystore of stuff, don't try to eat it all at once.

And yeah: Psi and magic are there for 'genre completeness' but you might be better off just assigning magic descriptors to superpowers if you want to play nice...

Hi!
 I played and loved HU for years and had loads of fun. I once played a campaign with an 8 and 10 year-old and they got it and had fun too. So, um, it can't be THAT complicated.
  I think maybe you are over thinking it. Just let it be and play it as is, don't try and read too much into it...
  When Rifts came out, I pretty much stopped playing palladium, but maybe I'll revive my campaign again soon...

I've played and enjoyed HU and the other Palladium stuff.  
Stuff like Champions can make a better supper,  but I found it easier to have fun with HU.  
It all depends on how much number crunching everyone likes.

Quote from: JackalopeI've played a lot of super hero games.  I'd rate Heroes Unlimited as the worst I've ever actually run.  Worse than Villains & Vigilantes, worse than DC Heroes, worse than Marvel Super Heroes (FACERIP), worse than even Guardians.  God, it's even worse than GURPS Supers!!!

Despite some nice artwork, it is worse than all these games.

Of course, all supers games are worse than DC Heroes. It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's like being less cool than The Fonz: just a fact of life.

After TSR Marvel Super Heroes, I've never had more fun developing characters than for Heroes Unlimited!

Though to this day I never understood the Helicopter-porn at the back of the book.

Of the three Palladium games I've actually kept, Heroes Unlimited is one of them.  I don't like it as much as Marvel (FASERIP) but would probably run it over Hero System which is a hell of a lot cleaner.  It's a horrible amalgam of ideas and subsystems but it's the closest thing to a Palladium tool kit you'll get.