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Author Topic: Big Developments in the ORC License  (Read 7850 times)

rkhigdon

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #90 on: January 19, 2023, 04:19:46 PM »
Also, in section 6

6(f) No Hateful Content or Conduct. You will not include content in Your Licensed Works that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing, or engage in conduct that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing. We have the sole right to decide what conduct or content is hateful, and you covenant that you will not contest any such determination via any suit or other legal action.

With the following in Section 7

We may immediately terminate your license if you infringe any of our intellectual property; bring an action challenging our ownership of Our Licensed Content, trademarks, or patents; violate any law in relation to your activities under this license; or violate Section 6(f). 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 04:21:41 PM by rkhigdon »

VisionStorm

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #91 on: January 19, 2023, 04:28:13 PM »

Yeah, I have never seen the charm of them, outside of the character Deekin, from the Neverwinter Nights game. And that's a very setting/story specific character, who's "charming" in an annoying kinda way.

But I've never used Kobolds in my games, except for very early on when I started DMing. And that was decades ago, when Kobolds were still tiny dog people. Then they changed them to tiny lizard people on me, and I was like "WTF? Didn't they use to be dog people? You know what? Screw it! I don't even use Kobolds, I use Goblins all the time!"

I never use both goblins and kobolds straight in the same game.  And if I want just one, I'll probably use goblins.  However, sometimes I want to split both of them off from the "early cannon fodder, bottom of the monster society" role and into something more extreme, which could go like this:

- goblins - almost feral sociopaths that only understand bullying and power, and will stab you in the back the moment they can see it, like a rabid badger hopped up on LSD--on a good day.
- kobolds - small fey with peculiar customs--sometimes not understandable by playable races, can be dealt with carefully, with some risk, similar to amoral elves in myths, but are friendly enough when there is mutual reason to trade goods, favors, information, etc.

I don't like goblins in the second role, usually, because it's another notch in the chain of turning them into just another race.  For some reason, kobolds have more resistance to that effect.

In my games goblins are never just bottom tier cannon fodder, cuz I basically treat them like a PC race, and give them classes and stuff, even if they're usually low level. Fighter/Rogues are the default--what I consider the race's go-to classes. But they always have wizards as well, usually on leadership positions.

I've toyed with the idea treating them as dark fey, since that's what they're supposed to be in folklore, but for traditional D&D stuff, I've always had them as one notch above primitive savages--smarter and more cunning, and opportunistic (but physically weaker) than the other "goblinoid" races, like orcs, gnolls and ogres (other than ogre magi), and capable of actually producing wizards. While others tend to be more brutish and savage.

Draft of the OGL1.2 just dropped on DnDBeyond. I leave it to others to dig into it.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/attachments/39j2li89/OGL1.2_DraftForDiscussionPurpose.pdf

That said, the The absolute deal breaker is right on page 2...

NOTICE OF DEAUTHORIZATION OF OGL 1.0a. The Open Game License 1.0a is no longer an authorized license. This
means that you may not use that version of the OGL, or any prior version, to publish SRD content after (effective
date). It does not mean that any content previously published under that version needs to update to this license.
Any previously published content remains licensed under whichever version of the OGL was in effect when you
published that content.


I foresee a great future for the TTRPG hobby, breaking away from the stranglehold of WotC and the specter of D&D, cuz this shit ain't gonna fly, and WotC are dead set on doing this.

Chris24601

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #92 on: January 19, 2023, 04:33:23 PM »
Of note regarding “Previously Published Works”; it’s not what common language would suggest it is.

from 17 U.S. Code § 101 - Definitions;

“Publication” is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending. The offering to distribute copies or phonorecords to a group of persons for purposes of further distribution, public performance, or public display, constitutes publication. A public performance or display of a work does not of itself constitute publication.

So, by strict reading…  “It does not mean that any content previously published under that version needs to update to this license. Any previously published content remains licensed under whichever version of the OGL was in effect when you published that content” … Does NOT include new publishings/printings of content. It just means you don’t have to burn your existing inventories as they implement their new license.

How generous.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #93 on: January 19, 2023, 04:35:54 PM »
"We want to punch you in the face"
"No"
"Well that was a learning experience for us. How about we apply inertia to our fists and move it in the direction of your cranium?"
"No"
"Bummer. Well...How about we take a swing at your ear?"

Destroying the OGL is non-negotiable for management.

Chris24601

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #94 on: January 19, 2023, 04:56:17 PM »
"We want to punch you in the face"
"No"
"Well that was a learning experience for us. How about we apply inertia to our fists and move it in the direction of your cranium?"
"No"
"Bummer. Well...How about we take a swing at your ear?"

Destroying the OGL is non-negotiable for management.
Yup. Even the irrevocable clause in the license becomes meaningless if connected to their claim that they can deauthorize licenses at will and doing so only leaves “previously published works” (i.e. stuff you’ve already printed, but not new printings of the material).

So 30 or 60 or 180 days from now the OGL1.3 is released and 1.2 is deauthorized. The irrevocable license applies only to material you’ve already got distributed or in your warehouse. You need the new OGL1.3 license and it’s terms (oh, lookk… royalties are back along with our irrevocable license to your material forever) to continue to print new copies.

Oh, and if we decide you’re a bigot you lose the license entirely.

Yeah, this is DOA.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #95 on: January 19, 2023, 05:02:15 PM »
If the people of Roll20, Owlbear Rodeo, etc sign this shit they are stupid. From their VTT policy:

"What isn’t permitted are features that don’t replicate your dining room table storytelling. If you replace your
imagination with an animation of the Magic Missile streaking across the board to strike your target, or your VTT
integrates our content into an NFT, that’s not the tabletop experience. That’s more like a video game."

Also:

"May I make my VTT Owlbear token look like the one from the Monster Manual?
No. We’ve never licensed visual depictions of our content under the OGL, just the text of the SRD. That hasn’t
changed. You can create a creature called an Owlbear with the stat block from the SRD. You cannot copy any of our
Owlbear depictions. But if you’ve drawn your own unique Owlbear, or someone else did, you can use it."

So, how thew fuck is the VTT going to prevent people from doing so?

The only way is to ban ALL foreign tokens so you can only use the ones provided by the VTT.

Wakners on the Beach is intent on destroying ALL other VTTs so there's only one to rule them all.

Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

jeff37923

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #96 on: January 19, 2023, 05:06:19 PM »
Also, in section 6

6(f) No Hateful Content or Conduct. You will not include content in Your Licensed Works that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing, or engage in conduct that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing. We have the sole right to decide what conduct or content is hateful, and you covenant that you will not contest any such determination via any suit or other legal action.

With the following in Section 7

We may immediately terminate your license if you infringe any of our intellectual property; bring an action challenging our ownership of Our Licensed Content, trademarks, or patents; violate any law in relation to your activities under this license; or violate Section 6(f).

I'd like to see how this applies to bait games like Thirsty Sword Lesbians......
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

Chris24601

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #97 on: January 19, 2023, 05:12:24 PM »
Also, in section 6

6(f) No Hateful Content or Conduct. You will not include content in Your Licensed Works that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing, or engage in conduct that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing. We have the sole right to decide what conduct or content is hateful, and you covenant that you will not contest any such determination via any suit or other legal action.

With the following in Section 7

We may immediately terminate your license if you infringe any of our intellectual property; bring an action challenging our ownership of Our Licensed Content, trademarks, or patents; violate any law in relation to your activities under this license; or violate Section 6(f).

I'd like to see how this applies to bait games like Thirsty Sword Lesbians......
I would guess not at all. After all, it’s not harassment if they deserve it and all those istaphobes absolutely deserve it. If they had no double standards they’d have no standards.

Jaeger

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #98 on: January 19, 2023, 07:07:19 PM »
Absolutely hilarious on other forums how many are pro morality clause.

And are willing to argue that you must be a bigot if you have a problem with one.

Comedy gold.
"The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge."

#WotcDelendaEst

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #99 on: January 19, 2023, 07:26:06 PM »
I'm against a morality clause because it's no different than an obscenity clause. What qualifies is arbitrary and depends on the whims of the owner at the time. We've seen time and time again where that goes.

Zachary The First

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2023, 07:56:02 PM »
AbsolutelyHUGE list of companies just announced behind ORC:

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7y?The-ORC-Alliance-Grows

Alchemy RPG
Arcane Minis
Atlas Games
Autarch
Azora Law
Black Book Editions
Bombshell Miniatures
BRW Games
Chaosium
Cze & Peku
Demiplane
DMDave
The DM Lair
Elderbrain
EN Publishing
Epic Miniatures
Evil Genius Games
Expeditious Retreat Press
Fantasy Grounds
Fat Dragon Games
Forgotten Adventures
Foundry VTT
Free RPG Day
Frog God Games
Gale Force 9
Game On Tabletop
Giochi Uniti
Goodman Games
Green Ronin
The Griffon’s Saddlebag
Iron GM Games
Know Direction
Kobold Press
Lazy Wolf Studios
Legendary Games
Lone Wolf Development
Loot Tavern
Louis Porter Jr. Designs
Mad Cartographer
Minotaur Games
Mongoose Publishing
MonkeyDM
Monte Cook Games
MT Black
Necromancer Games
Nord Games
Open Gaming, Inc.
Paizo Inc.
Paradigm Concepts
Pelgrane Press
Pinnacle Entertainment Group
Raging Swan Press
Rogue Games
Rogue Genius Games
Roll 20
Roll for Combat
Sly Flourish
Tom Cartos
Troll Lord Games
Ulisses Spiele
RPG Blog 2

Currently Prepping: Castles & Crusades
Currently Reading/Brainstorming: Mythras
Currently Revisiting: Napoleonic/Age of Sail in Space

GeekyBugle

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2023, 08:34:02 PM »
AbsolutelyHUGE list of companies just announced behind ORC:

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7y?The-ORC-Alliance-Grows

SNIP

So it's everybody and their mom against Wankers on the Beach...

This is gonna be fecking GLORIOUS!
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

FingerRod

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2023, 09:05:03 PM »
Haha fuck the new OGL just as hard as the last “draft”. Anyone who thinks it is any better is delusional. Also note this irrevocable license can in fact still be revoked if any provision is successfully challenged in court.

And seriously, fuck Orc too. Half of those companies have discriminated, virtue signaled, or think black people are orcs. They just want to control content with their license instead of WotC. And this is just more virtue signaling by companies that have released their own VERY restrictive license or none at all. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They are capitalizing on WotCs poison pill.

Going forward I will not support any product that uses either license. This hobby doesn’t need any more magic missiles or fireballs. I’d rather buy 1e or Basic from eBay.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2023, 09:15:12 PM »
Haha fuck the new OGL just as hard as the last “draft”. Anyone who thinks it is any better is delusional. Also note this irrevocable license can in fact still be revoked if any provision is successfully challenged in court.

And seriously, fuck Orc too. Half of those companies have discriminated, virtue signaled, or think black people are orcs. They just want to control content with their license instead of WotC. And this is just more virtue signaling by companies that have released their own VERY restrictive license or none at all. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They are capitalizing on WotCs poison pill.

Going forward I will not support any product that uses either license. This hobby doesn’t need any more magic missiles or fireballs. I’d rather buy 1e or Basic from eBay.

That's a genetic fallacy, yes, those companies have done those things, doesn't mean a license we haven't read yet is bad just because they rallied behind it, it could be just as bad as the NoOGL, worst or be really open, we won't know until it drops.

As for companies capitalizing on the mistakes of their competition... Well duh! That's what a smart company does! It doesn't make the yet to be released license bad.

This last part if anything gives me hope they MIGHT be seeing the light and coming back to a free market instead of virtue signaling, but we'll see; either way the license will stand or fail on it's merits.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

DocJones

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Re: Big Developments in the ORC License
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2023, 09:19:54 PM »
Also, in section 6

6(f) No Hateful Content or Conduct. You will not include content in Your Licensed Works that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing, or engage in conduct that is harmful, discriminatory, illegal, obscene, or harassing. We have the sole right to decide what conduct or content is hateful, and you covenant that you will not contest any such determination via any suit or other legal action.

With the following in Section 7

We may immediately terminate your license if you infringe any of our intellectual property; bring an action challenging our ownership of Our Licensed Content, trademarks, or patents; violate any law in relation to your activities under this license; or violate Section 6(f).

This is even much worse than the leaked 1.1 version.  Not only can they terminate based on your content, but also your conduct!
Post something they don't like on twitter or a forum and they pull your license.