Quote from: BadApple on February 04, 2024, 08:24:23 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 04, 2024, 08:18:03 PM
I had yet another weird thing happen.

I just went to my FLGS and they had a copy of Adventures in Rokugan on the shelf.  This is the version of the game re-done as a 5E game: six ability scores, armor class, hit points, and uses the 1D20 for combat.

Man, I'm getting a bit carried away with this Sengoku period Japan RPG stuff.  I'm buying everything I can find.

And yet, I already had a couple of good, free games.  Why am I going down this road?  Glad I you asked, disembodied voice in my own head.  I'll tell you.  I like to make sure I found the "best" game I can before playing a setting.

I'm still feeling it out, but I think I like either Adventures in Rokugan, or Shinobi and Samurai.

Adventures in Rokugan is Legends of the Five Rings retooled for use with 5e.  If you like that setting and you like 5e, then it will do just fine for you.

Actually only if you prefer your settings with a healthy (actually oppressive) side of social justice and cancel culture.  That's the game where they outlaw seppuku, offer trigger warnings regarding hetero-sexuality and straight up tell you that if you get into an argument with an Asian over something historical or cultural, regardless of who's right you need "to check your armor class at the door" and defer to the POC.  That's in addition to all the other insipid sensitivity BS they cram into the intro.

Quote from: Persimmon on February 04, 2024, 11:23:03 PM
Actually only if you prefer your settings with a healthy (actually oppressive) side of social justice and cancel culture.  That's the game where they outlaw seppuku, offer trigger warnings regarding hetero-sexuality and straight up tell you that if you get into an argument with an Asian over something historical or cultural, regardless of who's right you need "to check your armor class at the door" and defer to the POC.  That's in addition to all the other insipid sensitivity BS they cram into the intro.

Good to know, thanks for the info.

Quote from: Persimmon on February 04, 2024, 11:23:03 PM
Actually only if you prefer your settings with a healthy (actually oppressive) side of social justice and cancel culture.  That's the game where they outlaw seppuku, offer trigger warnings regarding hetero-sexuality and straight up tell you that if you get into an argument with an Asian over something historical or cultural, regardless of who's right you need "to check your armor class at the door" and defer to the POC.  That's in addition to all the other insipid sensitivity BS they cram into the intro.

Heard the new one was pretty bad, but damn.

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 04, 2024, 09:47:01 AM
I've heard there are loads of fan made Japanese language Japan exclusive campaigns, scenarios, and even worlds for Call of Cthulhu set around medieval Japan or fantasy worlds based on medieval Japan. None of which have been translated but are pretty good so I'm told. I don't speak or read Moonrunes so I couldn't tell you for certain but I think the fact they exist at all is super interesting. All we really got in English was one sourcebook on Japan that wasn't even very accurate to how Japan really is.

(Update)
I was mistaken. Apparently this book was written in English. Should be useful to you.

What I find odd is the seeming scarcity of Samurai-themed rpg material from Japan itself. Anyone know what (if anything) is going on in Japan in this regard?

I was never much interested in Legend of the Five Rings/Rokugan because it was Edge Studios, and their love of weird, narrative dice.  IE current Star Wars games by them like Edge of the Empire use the same system.

I hate those weird dice.  I'm not the only one, either.  From what I gather it's polarizing whether people want to play the Edge system with their special dice.  The ones who do love it, but many others never "get" it and not only won't play it, they can't play it because it's not intuitive.  I'm in that second group.  I want to game, not spend all my time deciphering rules. 

The selling point for the Adventures in Rokugan was the 5E rules.  I'm not completely sold on the setting.  It's a lot to read. 

I'll probably chock it up to an impulse buy.  I had a gift card from Christmas, so I got it.  I may never play it. 

Shinobi & Samurai also has the benefit of being a free download, so all of my players can get a copy themselves. 

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 05, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 04, 2024, 09:47:01 AM
I've heard there are loads of fan made Japanese language Japan exclusive campaigns, scenarios, and even worlds for Call of Cthulhu set around medieval Japan or fantasy worlds based on medieval Japan. None of which have been translated but are pretty good so I'm told. I don't speak or read Moonrunes so I couldn't tell you for certain but I think the fact they exist at all is super interesting. All we really got in English was one sourcebook on Japan that wasn't even very accurate to how Japan really is.

(Update)
I was mistaken. Apparently this book was written in English. Should be useful to you.

What I find odd is the seeming scarcity of Samurai-themed rpg material from Japan itself. Anyone know what (if anything) is going on in Japan in this regard?

Why aren't mountain man and wendigo games bigger in the US?

Well, there have been plenty of Wild West games in the U.S.

Quote from: BadApple on February 05, 2024, 10:51:32 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 05, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 04, 2024, 09:47:01 AM
I've heard there are loads of fan made Japanese language Japan exclusive campaigns, scenarios, and even worlds for Call of Cthulhu set around medieval Japan or fantasy worlds based on medieval Japan. None of which have been translated but are pretty good so I'm told. I don't speak or read Moonrunes so I couldn't tell you for certain but I think the fact they exist at all is super interesting. All we really got in English was one sourcebook on Japan that wasn't even very accurate to how Japan really is.

(Update)
I was mistaken. Apparently this book was written in English. Should be useful to you.

What I find odd is the seeming scarcity of Samurai-themed rpg material from Japan itself. Anyone know what (if anything) is going on in Japan in this regard?

Why aren't mountain man and wendigo games bigger in the US?

Well, there have been plenty of Wild West (and Weird West) games.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 05, 2024, 11:23:50 AM
Well, there have been plenty of Wild West (and Weird West) games.

Aside from Deadlands, most of these have been DOA or have never gained any traction.  (I lament this but I feel it's the truth.)  The problem with wild west RPGs IMO is that most players expect gunfights to feature prominently but doing this creates all kinds of issues for a fully functional game.  In reality, a good western game should feature PCs holding off on getting into a gunfight until things have gotten to the point there is no other option.  This means a game that is largely social.  Most combat focused games pit a high skilled warrior against groups of lesser combat opponents.  A Western pits two opponents that are relatively equal to each other.

This is why westerns appeal to the Japanese so much.  They get it.  The slow build-up, the tension, the opposing stresses of duty and honor, the slow burn of violations and anger until there's nothing left but to have that final showdown where only one man will walk away.  To the Japanese, this is a mirror image of the samurai stories.  This also showcases why there's not more JRPGs that feature the samurai genre.

I think it's funny and sad that over the top tropes are now being frowned upon.  The fun in gaming is dealing with big, common knowledge tropes, both good and bad.

US players and Westerns is a thing.  Typically we need some additional trope to make it interesting, though.  Westerns we're all the rage in the 1940's and 50's, but now we need zombies or aliens.  Or post apocalypse.

I'm also for Japan with a healthy dose of classism, racism, and things like mystic ninjas or a lord that's going to commit seppuku if his lover marries the other guy against her will (Romeo and Juliet plot anyone?).

Those are what add flavor to a game.  If this bothers you, you're not in my game. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on February 05, 2024, 06:45:49 PM
I think it's funny and sad that over the top tropes are now being frowned upon.  The fun in gaming is dealing with big, common knowledge tropes, both good and bad.

US players and Westerns is a thing.  Typically we need some additional trope to make it interesting, though.  Westerns we're all the rage in the 1940's and 50's, but now we need zombies or aliens.  Or post apocalypse.

I'm also for Japan with a healthy dose of classism, racism, and things like mystic ninjas or a lord that's going to commit seppuku if his lover marries the other guy against her will (Romeo and Juliet plot anyone?).

Those are what add flavor to a game.  If this bothers you, you're not in my game.

I enjoy all different kinds of games.  If a GM is going to run something over the top and full of cheesy tropes, I can roll.  If a GM wants to run a taunt psychological thriller, I'm down.  It's really about putting together the table that makes that game good.  I love a variety of gaming experiences just like I enjoy a lot of different books and music.

Now, I know that as a GM I have my strengths and weaknesses so there's games I'm fully up for being a player in but I'm no good to run.  I run fairly technical games, I need it to be grounded or I run into things I just don't do well.  You want a taunt drama game where everything is working to that final showdown at high noon?  I can do that.  Want a more loose and wacky shoot out game?  Not your GM here.  Oh, I will support the GM but I am not good at that except as a player.

Oddly, If I'm doing my thing the best way I can, often my players will fill the game with their personality and think I did that.  I've run really tight games and they played some absolutely wacky shit.  It baffles me but I enjoy it.  I love seeing players fill in the game with their ideas and decisions while using my GMing as a foundation to their experience.

I agree that there's different ways of approaching these genres.  I honestly think I can do something good with my shinobi game.  I can definitely see a table that embraces the Five Rings line of thought for PCs can make an awesome game with the right GM. 

Quote from: Rhymer88 on February 05, 2024, 07:32:06 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on February 04, 2024, 09:47:01 AM
I've heard there are loads of fan made Japanese language Japan exclusive campaigns, scenarios, and even worlds for Call of Cthulhu set around medieval Japan or fantasy worlds based on medieval Japan. None of which have been translated but are pretty good so I'm told. I don't speak or read Moonrunes so I couldn't tell you for certain but I think the fact they exist at all is super interesting. All we really got in English was one sourcebook on Japan that wasn't even very accurate to how Japan really is.

(Update)
I was mistaken. Apparently this book was written in English. Should be useful to you.

What I find odd is the seeming scarcity of Samurai-themed rpg material from Japan itself. Anyone know what (if anything) is going on in Japan in this regard?

The big reason is CoC is the biggest RPG in Japan. Bigger than DnD even. And there's a really famous fan made supplement that due to doujin culture is sold in the shops that deals with Sengoku era Japan. So popular it has spawned it's own fan supplements. People just play that if they want authentic Sengoku era Japan.

As someone who travels to Japan quite frequently, I can confirm that Call of Cthulhu is huge over there. Being a game designer myself, I always like to check the market while I am over there to see what's hot (or not). COC is definitely bigger than D&D and any other western game. It is true that there are tons of third party supplements for the game, many of them are exceptional (in tone and content) and I've bought several of them. I was lucky enough to sit in on a game a couple years ago at Yellow Submarine in Akihabara. The Keeper was pretty good guy and I was surprised to see the players were mostly women. They were a bit startled that I popped my head in to ask if "anyone insane yet?" in Japanese (みんなの頭はまだ大丈夫ですか？). That got a good laugh and I saw an empty seat, so I asked if I could sit and watch. The Keeper then proceeded to give me a pregen and brought me right in! It was a great time and luckily I didn't go insane either...

Quote from: BadApple on February 05, 2024, 11:54:31 AMThe problem with wild west RPGs IMO is that most players expect gunfights to feature prominently

Historical settings in general get no traction because players will not touch a game unless they get to have Kewl Powerz.  This has been known for decades.  It's not just pure historical, either; there are dozens of Starships & Scoundrels-themed games, and every single one of them has a Jedi analogue character class/playbook even if the source material didn't include Star Wars.

I just cracked the cover of my new Rokugan book. 

It's not the first page, but about 10-15 pages in when the writer spends 1&1/2 pages telling the players how to behave.  Don't use offensive stereotypes, specifically don't try to emulate an Asian language by making random noises, don't include ritual suicide/seppuku as suicide is too serious a matter, and the nations of Rokugan are paragons of inclusivity; an adopted foreigner into a clan is treated as a full member immediately and nobody questions it, ever. 

I'm of two minds.  First, don't tell me how to think, what stories I can run, or what plot elements I can and cannot use.  I know my friends WAY better than you do Mr know-it-all Author. 

Second, I'm used to warnings in my games, so ignoring them is almost second nature at this point.  All of my Palladium games have a disclaimer in the front cover that basically says, "It's all make believe.  Drugs and insanity are in the real world, no, we're not glorifying them.  Karen, grow the #### up.  The 'Satanic Panic' is BS and you should know that already"

I might have misquoted it, but that's how I read it all.

Hell, I'm tempted to cut that page out, but my powers of not giving a shit what others think are already strong enough.  I'll run my game as I see fit.

——————————-

Also, Adventures in Rokugan is a big ass book.  I'm not sure I have time to read it all. 

Quote from: daniel_ream on February 06, 2024, 09:13:47 AM

Quote from: BadApple on February 05, 2024, 11:54:31 AMThe problem with wild west RPGs IMO is that most players expect gunfights to feature prominently

Historical settings in general get no traction because players will not touch a game unless they get to have Kewl Powerz.  This has been known for decades.  It's not just pure historical, either; there are dozens of Starships & Scoundrels-themed games, and every single one of them has a Jedi analogue character class/playbook even if the source material didn't include Star Wars.

You say that like it's a bad thing. 

As a grown ass man with over a dozen Star Wars starship models and Lego sets on my shelves of my den, I'm all for every space game having a Jedi.