An RPG where the play never leaves the table top.  I've got the minis and the terrain, but what rules to use?

What would you pick and why?

4th edition DnD seems perfect for this type of play.

I've run loads of 4E and I think it's actually a bad fit for this kind of play because of it's focus on set piece encounters and it's very rigid system of roles and power types.  Combat also takes forever so you end up accomplishing next to nothing in a given session.

At it's core it might be a great foundation for a game like this, but I think I'd have to do a lot of house ruling to avoid the time eating and the bland homogeneity of everything that shows up after a few levels of play.

Quote from: Chivalric;1091630An RPG where the play never leaves the table top.  I've got the minis and the terrain, but what rules to use?

What would you pick and why?

Fantasy Trip for lite, and GURPS for detailed. But honestly any RPG with concrete movement rules works with mini and terrain.

This was run with ODnD

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Riot in full swing

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Fantasy Age


I have used other systems but that all I have pictures for.

However The Fantasy Trip is the current hotness for terrain and minis. Plus is it has a lot less overhead then other systems.

Like Estar said: The Fantasy Trip. Savage Worlds would be another option. Personally, I've experimented with some of Nordic Weasels stuff lately, with fun results. He's having a big sale right now, so check it out.

Dungeon or Starport Scum, probably the most RPG-like of his games.

Five Leagues From the Borderlands, also good for solo play.

Also, from the guy who did Frostgrave, Rangers of Shadowdeep. I haven't tried this one, though.

Savage Worlds is the first name that sprung to my mind as well - it has been designed for this type of play, specifically to accomodate higher numbers of combatants than your average RPG.

OD&D because it's a miniatures game by design.

Quote from: estar;1091637Fantasy Trip for lite, and GURPS for detailed. But honestly any RPG with concrete movement rules works with mini and terrain.
[...]
However The Fantasy Trip is the current hotness for terrain and minis. Plus is it has a lot less overhead then other systems.

I dug out my copies of Adv Melee, Adv Wizard and Into the Labyrinth.  Apparently there's a new edition just recently made available, but I'll probably try out what I have before I consider that.

Quote from: VacuumJockey;1091643Like Estar said: The Fantasy Trip. Savage Worlds would be another option. Personally, I've experimented with some of Nordic Weasels stuff lately, with fun results. He's having a big sale right now, so check it out.
[...]
Also, from the guy who did Frostgrave [Rangers of Shadowdeep]

Going from the miniature game direction and pushing it towards RPGs would be another way to go for sure.  I have Rangers and the only Nordic Weasel stuff I have is the larger scale sci-fi wargames.  I think this would work, but I think I'd end up having to do a lot more work to make it all fit with a referee and players than taking an RPG system and making it work with miniatures.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1091652Savage Worlds is the first name that sprung to my mind as well - it has been designed for this type of play, specifically to accomodate higher numbers of combatants than your average RPG.

Savage Worlds is definitely an option.  I ran a one shot of it once and it was fun.  Combat can be surprisingly tactical.

The Fantasy Trip is on the top of my list right now and I'm liking what I'm seeing in Into the Labyrinth.

If you like Warmachine and Hordes, the "RPGs" (they barely qualify IMO) really are just injecting a little bit of character into a mini-wargame. I like the world, but the games just take too much from the mini rules. There's an ability where your soldier-type can instantly dig a foxhole for cover. Doesn't matter if you're standing on solid rock or a pier, you instantly dig a small pit (but don't fall through the pier). No one else can fit in your foxhole, and somehow the same pit instantly fills itself in when you leave it too. If you try to rationalize it, you must be making an extradimensional space for your legs and torso... making it with a shovel.

Classic Traveller and Snapshot, Azhanti High Lightning, or Striker. Back in the day, GDW specifically designed those games to be interelated and compatible so you have a combination RPG, miniatures game, and design rules to create your own pieces. The combined system was extremely versatile and revolutionary for the time.

White Box - Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game

One little book.  4 PC Classes.  About 10 Levels of play.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1091673If you like Warmachine and Hordes, the "RPGs" (they barely qualify IMO) really are just injecting a little bit of character into a mini-wargame. I like the world, but the games just take too much from the mini rules. There's an ability where your soldier-type can instantly dig a foxhole for cover. Doesn't matter if you're standing on solid rock or a pier, you instantly dig a small pit (but don't fall through the pier). No one else can fit in your foxhole, and somehow the same pit instantly fills itself in when you leave it too. If you try to rationalize it, you must be making an extradimensional space for your legs and torso... making it with a shovel.

Lol!

I'm an ex-warmachine/hordes player who still has some "what was i thinking?" moments.  Trenchers digging in do the same thing in the miniature wargaming.  Too bad those trenches disappeared when they moved, that'd be useful right about now! lol

Quote from: jeff37923;1091674Classic Traveller and Snapshot, Azhanti High Lightning, or Striker. Back in the day, GDW specifically designed those games to be interelated and compatible so you have a combination RPG, miniatures game, and design rules to create your own pieces. The combined system was extremely versatile and revolutionary for the time.

I had no idea Classic Traveller was designed to work with other titles like that.  I know very little about the early days of that game.  I've played Classic Traveller only as a star trek original series planet of the week type game.  I think my friend has a complete GDW collection, so I'll ask him about those titles.

Quote from: Razor 007;1091676White Box - Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game

One little book.  4 PC Classes.  About 10 Levels of play.

The game first born from miniature gaming is very likely to be good at being an RPG-Miniature wargame hybrid!  I'm a big OD&D fan too.

Savage Worlds does a good job being a minis/RPG hybrid.

I enjoyed 4e, but the BEST iteration of 4e was the 4e Gamma World. That was excellent and if I had a group who wanted to run a minis/RPG hybrid where we were counting squares, and playing out skirmish fights, that's what I would use (easy to translate for fantasy).

I run OD&D and personally, I find it runs better in theater of the mind. When I run it with minis, its much more about the abstractions of general placement, and not square by square concerns.

I finished up a long OD&D campaign and I think I agree about the theatre of the mind thing or using miniatures for general placement.  I'm sure it works fine with inch by inch or square by square precise measurement, but I'd probably revert to more abstract placement out of sheer habit at this point.

Gamma World 4E was loads of fun.  A bit limited in what it did, but still fun.  And ugh, those cards. lol

Savage Worlds is definitely still on the list for me, but my initial reading of The Fantasy Trip is really grabbing me.  It was made for pieces on a hex map quite explicitly.  I'll likely go with measured movement though as my terrain mat nor terrain has grid or hex markings on it.

Quote from: Chivalric;1091672I dug out my copies of Adv Melee, Adv Wizard and Into the Labyrinth.  Apparently there's a new edition just recently made available, but I'll probably try out what I have before I consider that.

The major difference is that the character advancement been reworked. There a diminishing returns cap on attributes and the cap on talents and spells has been removed. Instead they are bought by XP.

The combat and magic system is 95% the same. The layout is better. There is a lot more support and adventure.