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Author Topic: The Window RPG Reminder  (Read 1898 times)

Pat

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 01:58:34 PM »
Yep. I know. I'm just looking at the link provided and I assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that they updated it? They certainly should have given the huge gap in time since its inception.
I haven't looked at The Window in two decades, and I'm fuzzy on the specifics. But the version I remember from late 90s had the rungs.

I looked around a little, and I can find reviews of Windows 2.0 from 1998. There are links in those reviews, that connect to the same webpage that RulesLiteOSRpls did in the first post. The current version on that webpage is Windows Second Edition, and according to the properties, the PDF was created in 1998.

I don't think it's changed.

RulesLiteOSRpls

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 06:11:17 PM »
I'll second (or third or fourth) Fudge.

It looks like they ripped off Savage Worlds and raised the TN to 6 just justify using the d20 - which is silly (because now d4 is not baseline for anything, it's sub-standard.)
The Window pre-dates Savage Worlds.

Thanks, Pat. I am currently working on my own FUDGE build.

Trinculoisdead

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2021, 07:23:03 PM »
First Precept:
"Everything about a Window character is described with adjectives rather than numbers."

Oh, hm, interesting, yes.

Every description of the character has a number next to it.  ?????

Aglondir

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2021, 09:34:18 PM »
Holy Earth and sea, I just discovered the existence of Fudge in a Nutshell. I think we have a new contender, Lads. Thanks, Tubesock Army!

You might also like Fudge in 1 Page:

https://fudge.ouvaton.org/index-e.html

Aglondir

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 10:13:24 PM »
Thanks, Pat. I am currently working on my own FUDGE build.

I find the difficult parts to a Fudge build are:

Creating the attributes: Fudge is a bit dodgy on what atts do. They cost 3x as much as skills (in the objective system) so it's important to know what exactly you want your atts to do when you make your build. The value of skills like Stealth and Melee Weapons are fairly obvious, but the value of a "Dexterity" attribute is more nebulous. It can do a lot, or it can do next to nothing.

Creating a magic system: I have yet to find a Fudge magic system I like. The sample one (in the 1995 version/SRD) has some good ideas, but it seems idiosyncratic and focused on a specific type of campaign. The sample Psionic system actually makes for a better magic system, in my opinion. The Gramarye, by Carl D. Cravens, is an excellent Noun + verb system, but... it's a Noun + Verb system. Fantasy Fudge has some great thematic elements, but it uses Five Point Fudge, which kills it for me.

One thing that really helped me with my Fudge builds (and grasping Fudge in general) were the sample characters in section 6.3 of the 1995 edition/SRD.

Good luck!

Tubesock Army

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2021, 10:59:42 PM »
Holy Earth and sea, I just discovered the existence of Fudge in a Nutshell. I think we have a new contender, Lads. Thanks, Tubesock Army!

You bet, hope it works out for you.

TheFailedSave

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2021, 04:42:24 AM »
Speaking of weird 90s RPGs, what was that one everyone was playing in the old AOL chatrooms. Chatrooms, heh, that's a memory. Wasn't it called Raiden or something? I remember that everyone was trying to recruit people into their guilds (whatever those were) even in completely unrelated chats. I even remember someone trying to explain the rules to me when I was in a martial arts/fitness chatroom. I think it involved d20s, but I don't really remember.

Pat

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2021, 10:47:46 PM »
A popular martial arts/fighting game from the 1990s was Thrash. It was a little after the turn of the millennium, but Final Stand was very different take on the same genre.

octaNe has a great setting, basically Six String Samurai the RPG.

Powergame was an interesting distillation of super hero power tiers to just 6 levels.

Forgotten Futures is another with a great setting, a loving take on alt-historical steampunk.

Heavy Ordnance is a great little game about schoolchildren blowing up their teachers with heavy weapons.

mAcular Chaotic

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2021, 09:29:25 PM »
Is FUDGE actually fun to play? I never see anyone play it.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

soundchaser

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2021, 09:36:50 PM »
We played a lot of Fudge for a couple years. The iteration of Spirit of the Century was a helpful "kit" example with loads of modifications and advice from the mechanical framework of FUDGE. IMO the shift to FATE messed up a lot of what we liked in the raw system... (it sort of, well, pigeon holed stuff, though Strands of Fate seemed to push things back in the FUDGE direction). I think the new Princess Bride RPG is a FUDGE game. I haven't got it yet...

Pat

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2021, 09:58:57 PM »
I played a lot of Fudge, years ago. It works pretty well, but it's less a game than a framework for a game. It's really just a mechanic, and a set of trait levels. There isn't even a set of basic, universal traits or skills. To play it, you have to comfortable making those up on your own. So at the very least, the GM has to be a bit of a tinkerer. I found it very good for pickup games, for games with new players, and for players who didn't really care much about mechanics. The trait levels in particular are pretty intuitive. And even though I haven't played it in quite a while, the principles behind it have helped inform how I play other games.

Aglondir

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Re: The Window RPG Reminder
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2021, 10:23:45 PM »
Is FUDGE actually fun to play? I never see anyone play it.

Yes? Maybe? No? Like any system, it is good for some things and not so good with others, and it's largely a matter of taste.

You might like Fudge if:

* You're looking for something rules-lite. Off the top of my head, there are four mechanics in Fudge: Basic rolls, Opposed rolls, Damage rolls, and Fudge Points. I might have missed some, but the point is this is not a game where you need to stop the game and turn to page X to see how something works.
* You're looking for something that focuses on characters and story. Fudge games will probably feel more like a World of Darkness game and less like a D&D game. I find it best for genres where there's not an whole lot of crunchy mechanical bits, but games where there are rich settings. Middle Earth and Serenity would work well with Fudge. 
* You like the dice. Part of the appeal of Fudge are the dice, which generate a bell curve between -4 and +4, heavily-weighted on the center. So if your character is good at something, when they roll the dice they will probably get a good result.
* You like to tinker with rules, and you want to learn how RPGs work. Fudge doesn't really work "out of the box." Part of the fun is making your own build.


You won't like Fudge if:

* You enjoy the meta-game of planning out the perfect character build from level 1 to 20, consulting char-op sites, picking the prefect combos of feats and spells.
* You are looking for crunchy tactical options. Or you like accumulating treasure.
* You hate the dice. Due to the bell-curve, some players complain "Why am I even bothering to roll dice?"
* You hate granular games, where the difference between ranks can be 10% rather than 1%.
* You don't want to build the game before you play it.


The critical flaw with Fudge is option-itis. Here's how initiative works:

Quote from: Fudge SRD
Gaining initiative is an Opposed action. If the characters don’t have an Initiative attribute or skill— such as Reflexes or Speed— simply use Opposed Situational rolls. A gift such as Combat Reflexes can grant a +1 to initiative. Surprise may grant a bonus to the roll, or give automatic initiative. Initiative can be rolled once for each battle or once each round. Perhaps a character could trade skill for initiative: attack hastily (+1 to initiative that round) but be slightly off balance because of it (-1 to attack and defend that round).

There are at least 6 different decisions the GM has to make in that one paragraph alone. Now imagine that for every element of Fudge. I hate FATE (and that's a separate post) but part of the reason FATE succeeded is that it managed to build a straightforward Fudge build that you could actually play without building first.

So is it fun? I think so. But I also think OSR games and Hero System are fun.