Quote from: The Traveller;721549I just hope his business plan recognises that marketing should be a big percentage of your budget, paying for a broad spectrum of advertisements and not betting the farm on viral word of mouth stuff.

A lot of good products have foundered because someone thought "if you build it they will come" was sound advice. I mean they're giving away Talislanta for free. If you tell them about it repeatedly they might come is more accurate.

That kind of advertising is very, very expensive. And there's no evidence that it works for such a tiny niche product as RPG games. The potential market for tabletop RPGs is small, and the people who make up that market already know about RPGs. If they don't play them, it's because they don't want to.

Quote from: Haffrung;721564That kind of advertising is very, very expensive. And there's no evidence that it works for such a tiny niche product as RPG games.

Advertising is expensive but people still pay for it because it works. The trick is picking the right places to advertise and getting the right message across for that platform.

Quote from: Haffrung;721564The potential market for tabletop RPGs is small, and the people who make up that market already know about RPGs.

I disagree with this, I'm not saying it's a huge potential market but it certainly could be bigger than its current state. The existing market for RPGs is insular and incestuous, and minimum half of the consumers know of nothing beyond D&D (whose last iteration was a train crash). These would be the people who just don't participate in web based discussions, visit Drivethru or research other RPGs.

Taking too blinkered a view of the potential is a mistake, and it's one that seems somewhat endemic among online RPG commentators. For example one recent thread held that G+ was mostly RPGers and photographers, and yet Google tells us there are 300 million active accounts.

That's a lot of photographers.

Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.

He sounds like a wanker to me, his quote that "people who play RPGs are drunks and druggies and not wanted in society" just goes to show he has no damn clue what he's doing or who he's dealing with.  You don't insult your potential buyers before you get started by pigeon holing them in a stereotypical group like that, maybe he needs to do more research before starting a business.  I also don't think it will last long with his other comment on how "he gets bored easily", so what, after he gets bored of the company in six months, he'll just shut it down or whatnot, what a goober.

Hopefully Arrakeen Tactical will make a Dune RPG.

Quote from: Haffrung;721564That kind of advertising is very, very expensive. And there's no evidence that it works for such a tiny niche product as RPG games.

Niche marketing is very effective. It's just harder than selling soap. The problem is discovering a way to create word of mouth among teens and young adults for RPGs when their world is so inundated with other entertainment options.

Quote from: Haffrung;721564The potential market for tabletop RPGs is small, and the people who make up that market already know about RPGs. If they don't play them, it's because they don't want to.

I believe the potential market is huge. Any kid who is playing make believe with his/her Legos at age 8 is a target for RPGs at age 12.  

They sell a lot of Legos.

More importantly, they sell a lot of computer and console and mobile app RPG games. Every teen and adult who play any of these games already loves to make believe they are an elf on a grand adventure. Every one of them is a potential D&D fan.

One of the big hobbies online - especially among young women - is writing fanfic. Every tween writing Twilight fanfic is a potential customer for WoD.

Please note that when I say "potential", I don't mean "probable". I mean "possible", but I don't see why a 1 in 20 conversion rate isn't fully realistic.

I don't believe most teens and young adults know tRPGs even exist. When I have seen teens introduced to RPGs, their reaction is often exuberant.

But there are far more demands on their entertainment time and leisure dollars than for teens in the 80s.

I think the eurogame crowd is ripe for the plucking were there a product capable and a company who didn't consider them lepers.

But I know little of the industry.  If I were in it, though, I would at least try and get to know him.  People who know people are the best people to know.

Quote from: mcbobbo;721594I think the eurogame crowd is ripe for the plucking were there a product capable and a company who didn't consider them lepers.

Well yes, it seems blindingly obvious that people who have demonstrated a willingness and enthusiasm to get together face-to-face with friends around a table and actively use their brains and imaginations to play games with a geeky theme would be a natural market for RPGs. Especially when that market is both growing in leaps and bounds, and seems to have a lot of money.

But again, advertising won't do the trick. I'll wager 90 per cent of people who sat down to play Agricola, Dominion, or Battlestar Galactica in the last year knew what D&D was, and a hefty number had even played before. The key is accessibility - and not accessibility on the store shelves (most boardgame hobbyists buy online), but ease of play and robust support.

Quote from: The Traveller;721549I just hope his business plan recognises that marketing should be a big percentage of your budget, paying for a broad spectrum of advertisements and not betting the farm on viral word of mouth stuff.

Any business that works does a few things:

1) Identify a customer need
2) Create a product/service to satisfy that need
3) Inform customers of the product/service
4) Enable customers to purchase said product/service

Most hobbyist "business plans" only worry about step 2.

So, yeah.

Also, I'd really love to see what his sales projections are, especially compared to the rest of the market.

Quote from: Haffrung;721606But again, advertising won't do the trick. I'll wager 90 per cent of people who sat down to play Agricola, Dominion, or Battlestar Galactica in the last year knew what D&D was, and a hefty number had even played before. The key is accessibility - and not accessibility on the store shelves (most boardgame hobbyists buy online), but ease of play and robust support.

I think this is the key.  If there's an RPG that's able to bring in new players, I suspect it'll look a lot more like Basic D&D *at the crunchiest* than Rolemaster.  I think it'll take someone looking at what is truly the core value that RPGs can offer to non-RPG players, and figuring out how to deliver that value with the least bit of cruft to really bring in a new influx of people into the hobby.

Quote from: Haffrung;721606The key is accessibility - and not accessibility on the store shelves (most boardgame hobbyists buy online), but ease of play and robust support.

I fully agree.

Quote from: Haffrung;721606But again, advertising won't do the trick.

Yes, it will, and I don't really feel that this needs to be explained. If you want to expand your market you need to make new people aware of your product. Besides, there are plenty of gradients between a fifty dollar adwords budget and a page in the New York Times.

Seems odd to me, but it might work, who knows?

Here's the problem as I see it.

My mom loves to crochet. Loves it. It's her favorite hobby and she can crochet for hours every day and she cranks out a dozen gorgeous afghans each year for charity and gifts. She runs a crochet club and they all love to crochet, love to talk about what's new and cool in the world of crochet and even search the web for the newest in the world of crochet.

Sound familiar???

There is zero chance I'm ever gonna crochet. I think that goes for most people, regardless how my mom and her friends evangelize how much fun they are having. And they're not bullshitting. They really love their hobby.

What we do is very niche.

Lots of people love to receive hand crochet items as gifts and happily purchase hand made items, but the jump between buying stuff and making stuff is a vast chasm they are never going to cross. Lots of people enjoy reading fantasy novels and watching fantasy movies, but they are never going to leap into tabletop RPG, regardless of how much fun they may have if they tried.

I do not know how a POTENTIAL fan becomes a DEVOTED fan.

That said, my mom's crochet club gets a few new members every year and there are stores in most every town that caters to people who love to crochet. And even young people are drawn to their hobby. So it's quite possible for a non-electronic hobby niche to grow and thrive in the age of the interwebs.

So listen up my bitches, somebody here better crochet me a dungeon.