Hi Folks -
I am looking for a good Medieval Knight RPG for my nephew for Christmas. He's pretty experienced with roleplaying and likes old school games somewhat. I've done some basic searching online, but my Google Fu isn't what it used to be. Now before Pundit jumps in here with Lion & Dragon, I wanted to get people's feedback on some of the classics:
Pendragon
Chivalry & Sorcery
Harn
GURPS - Camelot, etc.
What other good options are out there for a classic medieval chivalric knight type rpg out there? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Pendragon and C&C get mentioned alot as really good for that style.
And oddly enough, consider checking out two 2e D&D books from their Historical conversion line.
The first is HR2 - Charlemagne's Paladins. Set in the Dark Ages. Human only. This one is iffy as to being the right style. But still a well thought out approach.
The second and more likely what you are looking for is HR7 - Crusades. Also human only and set of course during the Crusades. Also well thought out.
Also if can find a copy, there is Grail Quest for TFT. Playable solo, 2 player or multi with a DM.
If Pendragon might be of interest, there's also Paladin, which is a recent book in very much the same style but set in France in the late 8th century: Runequest-type mechanics, all players are Christian knights, male by default, looking for multi-generational success. It takes a lot of cues from the French legends rather than the British ones, and like Pendragon starts in the Dark Ages but compresses several hundred years of technological & social change into about a century so that if you run a full campaign it feels late medieval by the end.
Female player-characters are GM optional, and it's also GM decision whether they're generated using the rules for men or for women: different stat ranges, different starting skills, including significantly less skill with weapons.
One thing I like about Chivalry and Sorcery is that knights are objectively the best fighters. If you want a game to focus on knights that's a good way to get there.
The Palladium Fantasy Roleplaying game gives knights their own Hand To Hand Combat skill that is better than the Mercenary Fighter or Soldier get.
GURPS does knights fairly well and has a decent sourcebook on medieval England but you've always got a big points sink in the form of status, wealth, and legal enforcement powers (at 15 points for the ability to beat up peasants with impunity) so non-noble fighters will generally dominate combat.
There was an rpg called Lion Heart that was about the middle ages, I think it was by Columbia Games, like Harn, but medieval.
My The Arcane Confabulation rules have a knight career but don't really get too into medieval culture and such. http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/thearccon.pdf
But what do you really expect? I get what's theme you desire... but something more maybe?
I personally don't think any edition of D&D was really Medieval Knight RPG neither historical nor legendary. But that's also another question - do you want authentic medieval simulation or Knights of Round Table? Real or mythical?
Quote from: Naburimannu on December 03, 2021, 03:27:09 AM
If Pendragon might be of interest, there's also Paladin, which is a recent book in very much the same style but set in France in the late 8th century
I'll second Paladin.
Superb game, superb presentation. Not only makes for excellent gameplay but also a beautiful present, seeing as how gorgeous the book is.
Dragon Warriors is a more feudal & knightly D&D-style British fantasy game. The 21st century version leans heavily into 'dark fantasy' presentation. Very rules light by modern standards.
Sounds like i need to check out paladin lol.
Ill join the chorus saying Pendragon though
The Deryni Adventure Game is based on Katherine Kurtz' novels, and set in their "totally-not-10th-through-12th-century-England" kingdom of Gwynedd. Knights are not the sole focus, but they are a available to play, and TDAG has the benefit of putting them into the context of other types and social classes.
No one plays DragonQuest?
If you can find a copy, there's the sadly out-of-print Prince Valiant game, based on the Hal Foster comic strip and written Greg Stafford who also wrote Pendragon. It's a very simple system involving flipping coins that was deliberately meant as an introduction rpg.
The Dark Eye has some regions that work great for knightly adventures.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on December 04, 2021, 12:20:07 PM
No one plays DragonQuest?
Not much specific knightly stuff there. I do find myself thinking about ways to make my game appeal to Dragon Quest fans :D
Check out Lion & Dragon
This is going to strongly depend on what you want out of it. So far from what i've discovered here
Within the OSR:
- Lion and Dragon/Dark Albion seems good if you're looking for an osr fix based in medieval history, i'm only a little familiar with it so i cant actually speak much on it.
- Castles and Crusades is a fantastic game, feels like AD&D 1e, took the best parts from 3e and streamlined it. PDF for the players handbook is actually free so there is no reason why you shouldn't at least look at it. https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Players-Handbook-7th-Printing-Digital/p/89198194 (https://www.trolllord.com/tlgstore/#!/Players-Handbook-7th-Printing-Digital/p/89198194)
- Dragon Warriors: Heard good things about this, never played it. The core rulebook is pwyw on dtrpg. When we were playing D&D britain was playing dragon warriors. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/90926/Dragon-Warriors (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/90926/Dragon-Warriors)
Non OSR but still old school
- GURPS this game is amazing, you can do anything with it but is high crunch. http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/ (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/)
- Savage Worlds: This game can do most things, low crunch fast play
- Genesys: Narrative Dice system but low crunch and fast play.
- Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: You have knights, men at arms, wizards, in a world very similar to 15th-16th century holy roman empire. d100 system
Stuff I've run across recently worth mentioning here
- Black Death https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177268/Black-Death (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177268/Black-Death)
- Maelstrom Domesday https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/134783/Maelstrom-Domesday-Quickstart?term=Maelstrom+domes (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/134783/Maelstrom-Domesday-Quickstart?term=Maelstrom+domes)
Hey Folks -
Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will be sure to check them out and see what works best for him. Does anyone know if Pundit has any actual adventures for Lion & Dragon or is it just the rulebook?
Thanks!
Quote from: aztecman on December 05, 2021, 10:58:06 PM
Hey Folks -
Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will be sure to check them out and see what works best for him. Does anyone know if Pundit has any actual adventures for Lion & Dragon or is it just the rulebook?
Thanks!
He has several adventures out in pdf--and, IIRC, soon to be bundled into a book--that are 'medieval authentic' but I don't think they are specific to Lion & Dragon
Quote from: aztecman on December 05, 2021, 10:58:06 PM
Hey Folks -
Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will be sure to check them out and see what works best for him. Does anyone know if Pundit has any actual adventures for Lion & Dragon or is it just the rulebook?
Thanks!
As far as I know it's just a rulebook, BUT he has put out a lot of his The Pundit presents series and he may very well have modules within. He'd know much better than I would. Lion & Dragon is a lot of fun!
Honestly... i've been revisiting the setting of late, and having recently dug up some old RPG's... I'd say Hidden Kingdom from New Rules Inc (formerly)
is one of my personal favorites, and worth a mention though admittedly it's not as playable as, say, Pendragon (which is also a good recommendation
and, for your needs, perhaps the better one).
Not sure how the reprint/rerelease on Drivethrurpg is, i've still got the 1983 rulebook, but i did get the pdf of the old maps that came with the game
originally, featuring the British Isles and the various kingdoms from Cornwall to Lothian and Orkney so i can play around with it again. Has stats for
literally 100's of charachters and extensive sections on heraldry and it just oozes flavor... hopefully that's still the case with the re-release. But it may be worth looking into.
Always wanted to try Chivalry and Sorcery, alas... never could afford that with my meager funds in the halcyon days of the 1980's.
Also Wolves of God, by Sine Nomine, set in 710 AD England.
Quote from: David Johansen on December 03, 2021, 02:30:59 PM
There was an rpg called Lion Heart that was about the middle ages, I think it was by Columbia Games, like Harn, but medieval.
Lionheart was a Robin Hood Setting, no rules.
Harnmaster can provide a knight setting for that same era. It can be used on Harn or elsewhere but it is one of the crunchiest games. I think they had a d20 version though.
I recommend Harnmaster + Harnmanor. As for crunch it is far less that than Chivalry and Sorcery and a whole lot easier to use. I have an extensive overview of it here.
https://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2020/04/a-walk-through-harnmaster-introduction.html
All the posts are cross-linked to make reading the whole series easier.
But really it more about the adventures. My Scourge of the Demon Wolf adventure/sourcebook works well as an adventure for a medieval knight.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106705/Scourge-of-the-Demon-Wolf
It has a complete description of the village as an appendix which can be used as the character's fief if things work out in the adventure.
Looking through the Deryni Adventure Game again since I last posted about it has reminded me of a few things. For one thing, the game, like the novels it's based on, uses real-world medieval European religion - meaning Christianity - as the dominant religion. Judaism, Islam and Paganism are briefly mentioned as well, but they are not the focus of either the novels or the game. It has a pretty good depiction of the various social classes and roles within its society, and lots of background on day-to-day life, from food, to justice, to the arts. It's pretty damn comprehensive, without overwhelming amounts of lore (though, make no mistake, there is lore). It would be very easy to use TDAG to run a more historical game (ignore the psychic/magical Deryni and change the country names back to their obvious inspirations boom done). Or, if you're looking for a low-magic medieval setting, you can just run it as-is. In-game, only the Deryni have psychic/magical abilities, but there is nothing mechanically stopping you from extending that to all humans, or some, as desired. TDAG uses the FUDGE system, though there are some brief notes for converting it to D20.Bottom line: TDAG is a strongly medieval European flavored RPG that closely adheres to the novels it sprang from.
I'm assuming folks are talking about Paladin: Warriors of Charlemagne by . . . Chaosium? https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/232647/paladin-warriors-charlemagne (https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/232647/paladin-warriors-charlemagne)
Quote from: aztecman on December 05, 2021, 10:58:06 PM
Hey Folks -
Thanks for all the great suggestions. I will be sure to check them out and see what works best for him. Does anyone know if Pundit has any actual adventures for Lion & Dragon or is it just the rulebook?
Thanks!
Hi! Sorry I didn't notice this thread earlier.
Yes, L&D is good for running a knights game (though I'll certainly agree that Pendragon is also good, and it sort of depends if you want a more "heroic" style or a more historical style with L&D).
There have been about 25 or so adventures for Lion & Dragon, all available as part of the RPGPundit Presents series from Spectre Press, and very soon (in a a couple of months at most I think) there will be a new Old School Companion 2: Medieval Authentic Adventures, which will compile all those adventures into one print book.
Pendragon.
(Although "medieval knight" covers as awful lot of ground, and the system I would choose might vary depending on the medieval period and "feel" I have in mind.)
I'll ask a "narrowing" question: which game gives the best Hundred Years' War feel? Lion & Dragon is post-HYW; Wolves of God is about 5-600 years early.
Quote from: RandyB on December 12, 2021, 03:22:20 PM
I'll ask a "narrowing" question: which game gives the best Hundred Years' War feel? Lion & Dragon is post-HYW; Wolves of God is about 5-600 years early.
The Deryni Adventure Game is early as well. Its setting is meant to mimic 10th - 12th century England, Scotland & Wales.
Another system to consider, at least for support materials, is Ars Magica. I would not necessarily recommend it for a Knight focused game, however, several books could make for good reference materials:
1. The Church
2. Lords of Men
3. City & Guild
4. Various Tribunal/Area books contain info about the region and some supernatural history.
5. Covenants - the first chapter has neat ideas for hooks & boons associated with a certain location of your homebase.
@Iron_Rain - I had considered Ars Magica for this option as well. I don't think he'd be interested in their 4th/5th editions of the game, but I can easily pick up 2nd/3rd versions of Ars Magica online. My nephew likes older games, so I think the 2nd edition version might be best for this. Someplace, I've got a copy myself, I'll have to go hunting for it. I recall that AM was primarily Magic centric. Not sure if that component can be stripped out to just leave the Knightly aspect, but it might be worth a try. I'll have to check their back catalog and see what's available. I did already see some things on Amazon for pretty cheap.
Quote from: RandyB on December 12, 2021, 03:22:20 PM
I'll ask a "narrowing" question: which game gives the best Hundred Years' War feel? Lion & Dragon is post-HYW; Wolves of God is about 5-600 years early.
It's still Lion & Dragon. It's default is late medieval, 100 years war is late medieval. No game will be closer in accuracy.
GURPS has a Middle Ages Supplement that is very good, written by Graeme Davis.
Lionheart from Columbia Games (1987) was a sourcebook for a planned RPG that never materialized. I'm told it's very good for this kind of game.
Quote from: markmohrfield on December 04, 2021, 01:12:23 PM
If you can find a copy, there's the sadly out-of-print Prince Valiant game, based on the Hal Foster comic strip and written Greg Stafford who also wrote Pendragon. It's a very simple system involving flipping coins that was deliberately meant as an introduction rpg.
I really wish I had scored a copy before it was out-of-print. Would have been a perfect game for my son to do his derring-do knightly adventures.
For long-term story building? Another vote for Pendragon from me. An amazing achievement of RPG writing.
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on December 16, 2021, 02:32:58 AM
I really wish I had scored a copy before it was out-of-print. Would have been a perfect game for my son to do his derring-do knightly adventures.
It's still available if you look hard (like on https://www.ebay.com/itm/185204417964 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185204417964)).
The one at the link seems to have ended with zero bids, it will probably be back. If not a more expensive version is linked on the same page.
Quote from: Ruprecht on December 16, 2021, 08:49:42 AM
Quote from: rocksfalleverybodydies on December 16, 2021, 02:32:58 AM
I really wish I had scored a copy before it was out-of-print. Would have been a perfect game for my son to do his derring-do knightly adventures.
It's still available if you look hard (like on https://www.ebay.com/itm/185204417964 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/185204417964)).
The one at the link seems to have ended with zero bids, it will probably be back. If not a more expensive version is linked on the same page.
There seem to be three copies currently for sale on ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=prince+valiant&_sacat=2543
Note that there are two editions of the game: the original softback with b&w illustrations and a kickstartered hardback reprint with color illustrations. As far as I'm aware, the text is identical. All the current ebay sales are for the softback version.
You could check out High Medieval. It uses the Omni System from Talislanta.Tons of background material, and pretty cheap on the secondary market. It has art by Larry Elmore and P.D. Breeding Black.
Quote from: Tubesock Army on December 27, 2021, 06:34:35 PM
You could check out High Medieval. It uses the Omni System from Talislanta.Tons of background material, and pretty cheap on the secondary market. It has art by Larry Elmore and P.D. Breeding Black.
I think i have a copy of that. Made by a New Brunswick based company I believe.
Interesting game from what I remember, but I haven't run it. Did you?
Pendragon!
The classic still reigns supreme.
Quote from: Thondor on December 27, 2021, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Tubesock Army on December 27, 2021, 06:34:35 PM
You could check out High Medieval. It uses the Omni System from Talislanta.Tons of background material, and pretty cheap on the secondary market. It has art by Larry Elmore and P.D. Breeding Black.
I think i have a copy of that. Made by a New Brunswick based company I believe.
Interesting game from what I remember, but I haven't run it. Did you?
No, but I've run Talislanta, and this has basically the same rules (with a few tew tweaks).Minimalist. Magic system is similar to 4th edition Talislanta, too. I like the system, overall. Smooth, simple.
Quote from: Tubesock Army on December 27, 2021, 06:34:35 PM
You could check out High Medieval.
Damn! "High Medieval" was going to be my upcoming Silk Road setting's sourcebook on opium dens!