Quote from: RPGPunditI have no idea what any of those things are, Bill.. care to explain the terms you're using?

That goes for everyone else, as well.

BTW, I'm thinking more for terrain maps, though dungeon maps are certainly a plus, too.

RPGPundit

Adobe Photoshop - This is  program like Microsoft Paint only on steroids, many many steroids. The general purpose of photoshop is to manipulate the pixels of a bitmap graphics. There are many ways of slicing, merging, and copying pixels and Photoshop has a ton of them.

A WACOM Table is a slab ranging from about 2" by 3", 5" by 7" to larger sizes. Attached to the slab via wireless or wire is a pen. Many pens are pressure sensitive. The tablet is embedded with many fine wires. This has the effect of making the absolute position of the pen known to the computer. If you pick up a mouse and put it 3" to the right. The computer cursor will not move. This is not the case with a WACOM style tablet

This combination is attached to a computer and used by artists to draw much like the pen and paper. Another advantage is that different mediums (oil, watercolor, etc) can be simulated by the software using the tablet.

Fractal Terrain Pro by Profantasy

It is a program that allows generation of worlds. It is simple to use as a tool. The only thing complicated is understanding the parameters used to create a world. The worlds are created essentially by using algorithms that generate random noise like static on a tv. It was found when combined several of these algorithms generate something that looks like a map of a planet. Pick a level to fill up to water then you have a map of a earth like world. Again this program is very simple to use.

Photoshop was combined with Fractal Terrain Pro by exporting the globe map as a graphic. This in turn was imported into Photoshop and layered on top of other graphics and effects were applied using the tools in PS.

CC3 is Campaign Cartographer 3

CC3 is a CAD program a specialized version of a program known as FastCAD. CAD program use what is called vector to represent drawing. Inkscape is another vector drawing program. Instead of treating a graphic as a bitmap made up of pixels, vectors graphics work with entities; lines, circles, rectangles, etc. Only the information requiring the drawing of the vector is stored. The start point, end point of a Line. The center and radius of a circle. So on. For very large maps this makes vector drawing files very compact compared to their bitmap equivalent.

However bitmap program like photoshop can do certain effects much easier than vector drawing. Especially when it comes to working with photographs. However in recent years programs, like CC3, have started incorporating features of programs like PS into their software. They do this by allowing special layers where these effects can be applied to the vector objects.

CC3 has a steep learning curve. You can get going with it very quickly but once you try to go beyond the simple stuff then there is a lot to learn. The advantage of mastering a program like CC3 is that you can truly make maps very quickly and very precisely. You get a maps that can be printed large or small and not lose detail like a bitmap.

For an old CAD guy like me CC3 was very easy to learn. However 95% of the computing population have never worked with CAD programs. It isn't CAD program are so difficult. It that they are so unlike other programs you use. Also coupled with the fact that CAD program are not built to get a new user going quickly but rather to make a skilled user work very quickly. This is because you only need to learn it once but afterwards you have work to do.

Again like FTP, the CC3 map was exported into a bitmap graphics and then manipulated by Photoshop's tool.

Hope this helps

Rob Conley

Quote from: Pierce InverarityPundy, what you're looking for doesn't exist. I know because I'm looking for it all the time.

CC3 is far too expensive, its CAD origin makes it totally unintuitive for regular users (every button does the opposite of what you think it does), and the results look extremely mediocre... unless, see above, you're willing to spend hours and hours exploring its potential by trial & error, reading manuals and mapping forums, surfing the web, whatever.

CAD programs, Inkscape, and other vector based drawing programs have years of development behind them. The market for these programs is very competitive (I know because it is my day-job) so programmers aren't just making crap up but relying on the input of thousand of users.

The results are programs that are incredibly powerful and efficient to the experienced user but a bitch to learn for a new user. This combined with the fact it a specialized vertical market program (compared to MS Word) make unintuitive to the average computer user.

Hexmapper or another map stamp program (where you create maps by stamping tools) are the way to go for a causal user. But if you want to create professional looking maps then the best way to go all out and use a full blown program like Inkscape, Gimp, CC3, CorelDRAW, or  Photoshop. The intermediate tools all suck on one level or another. I tried and they don't work for the time invested. If you want free then Inkscape and Gimp are the way to go.  

CC3 cost $30 and can be downloaded directly after purchase. CorelDRAW and Photoshop are considerably more expensive.

If you want "Old Skool" style hex maps, AKS Hexmapper and Wilderness Mapper fit the bill.

If you want to put together maps using squares instead of hexes, one of the versions of Dungeon Crafter works great.

The upside of these is that most anyone can slap together an acceptable looking map in no time.  The downside is that they are not "State of the Art" graphics wise.

So if you have time and skill, use something else.  If you need maps and don't have time or skill, these may be just the thing.

(They are what I use. FWTW  I even have made a handfull of Sci-Fi tile sets for DC II.  Which is handy to be able to do. )
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Dungeon Crafter has always been my goto map tool. I haven't used version 3 yet, but if it just adds onto what 1 and 2 did it's good. It's a "stamp" program like estar was talking about, but there are hundreds of free user-made tile sets* out there, so it's pretty easy to find whatever you're needing, or at least a close facsimile.

Also, despite being called Dungeon Crafter, it is perfectly usable for outdoor maps and buildings. The last time I went looking for tile sets I found more outdoor ones than dungeons.

* A tile set is a collection of "stamps" or "tiles" you use to build the maps. A set of tiles means that you've got a bunch of them that use the same drawing style and color scheme, so they merge seemlesly when combined into a single map.

AutoRealm is free and fairly easy* to use, and with a little bit of practice you can make decent looking maps. There is also a fairly large user/support base with its own yahoo forums.

*Easy is a relative term since I have experience with much more difficult (pain in the ass) drafting and mapping programs.

Quote from: estarCAD programs, Inkscape, and other vector based drawing programs have years of development behind them. The market for these programs is very competitive (I know because it is my day-job) so programmers aren't just making crap up but relying on the input of thousand of users.

Really? Allow me to say that the average user must be light years ahead of me, and have some CAD experience because Autorealm, Campaign Cartographer are painfully difficult for me to use.

If they want to attract idiots like me, who just want to make a cool map for their games they really need to simplify shit.

I did this with hexmapper. it works for me. I don't have great map making skills but this works just to get the point across. It's on my Blog. it's posted on tuesday.
quick, easy, and Free!

Love it!!!!

Quote from: J ArcaneAutoREALM is the best I've found.  I'd go so far as to say it's better than any of the commercial mapmakers I've tried.

Quote. Auorealm does the trick very well.

Hexmapper you say? Jesus, that's perfect!

What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.

RPGPundit

Hmm.. hexmapper doesn't seem to work for me. I tried unzipping it and running it and I got some kind of error message.

RPGPundit

Wonderful stuff, Evil DM!

About Dungeoncrafter: last time I checked, it could do "encounter level" maps only, i.e. anything from a small room to a small village (using outdoor tiles). But it couldn't do the kind of large-scale regional map EDM just posted.

Also, Dungeonforge. IMHO this one beats Dungeoncrafter hands down, because it can do .png files--meaning you can use thousands of free user-created Dundjinni tiles and objects.

There used to be a website that hosted a crapload of those... gmparlor.com, or gmsparlor.com, I forget. You needed to join, but there were no strings or spam attached. I finally stopped DLing only because I was overwhelmed.

Quote from: RPGPunditHexmapper you say? Jesus, that's perfect!

What do people here think of Campaign Cartographer? I know its not free, but it is one of the only map softwares I'd ever heard of by name before this thread, so I thought I'd ask.

RPGPundit

THe only think I liked about CC was that it could draw numbered hex grids.  

Ultimately though, I thought it sucked.  It was a completely non-intuitive, from the weird template and scaling systems, to the simple fact that most of the buttons were so small you couldn't really figure out what they did.

Quote from: RPGPunditSo what's the best computer program to make your own RPG maps? Ideally, one that doesn't actually cost money...

RPGPundit

Well, mine is not free because it is not available to the general public, but since I have one I thought I'd pipe up about it and see if there's any response.  

I programmed a Hex/Grid map application that not only allows for creating maps, but runs actual games on the map itself by dragging icons around, calculating combat, and so on.   The application also is a character generator, and general GM Toolbox with whatever features I needed to run my world.   I finished it up functionally in 2006, but went on to another project at that time and so have not released this software yet.  I'm working towards that.

The maps don't quite look all *That* beautiful, but that can be fixed by adding tiles instead of color coding the grids.   Note, though, that with mine there is an actual terrain feature that is used by the system to calculate movement for groups and individual characters (depending on what scale map you are using).   So far I have not seen anything much like what I have out there.  

Here's a little proto-blurb about the program with a link to screenshots.  

Elthos GM Toolbox Proto-Blurb

I hope you all think this at least looks promising.   If there is enthusiastic response then I may be able to use that to advance the project forward and get this released sooner rather than later.  

It's only for dungeons but I've found Interactive Dungeon to be easy to use.  It gives you a sheet of electronic graph paper where you can draw lines and use a moderate sized set of icons/stamps for doors and room items, plus you can color the squares.  The benefit is you can run the map on a laptop at the game table and eliminate mapping.  It starts with most of the map blacked out and exposes sections as you move the viewpoint.  It takes into account strength of light source and has popup text boxes for traps and encounters.
http://www.geocities.com/trainz_ca/ID/

Hexmapper is great for the old school campaign map, very quick and easy.

How difficult in dunjinni to use?  I've tried Autorealm and it was ok but took too long and looked crappy - graphics programs aren't my thing.  I want simple and quick without looking like a preschool drawing.