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Author Topic: Best and worst animal riding rules?  (Read 2331 times)

Skarg

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2015, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote from: flyingmice;848429
Am I the only one who has written a game - actually two games - *around* animal riding?


Quote from: Omega;848499
Gurps Horseclans?


I wouldn't say so. I have GURPS Horseclans, though it's in storage, since I don't find it useful for much other than playing in that campaign setting. Now, you could certainly play a GURPS Horseclans game and have it centered around horse riding, but I don't remember GURPS Horseclans really adding a whole lot in the way of rules around riding, though I might be forgetting a little bit. It was one of the first GURPS worldbooks and so is for 1st edition, and I doubt it adds anything in the way of horse rules that isn't done as well or better in 3rd and 4th edition Basic, let alone the Roleplayer article with the super-detailed horse rules.

A GURPS Wild West, or even many fantasy/medieval or Renaissance GURPS campaigns could be fairly horse-oriented if most of the characters and many of the plots were so oriented.

But none of that makes it, I'd say, a "game *around* animal riding" *per se* (at least, not the way it sounded to me when you wrote that), unless the GM chooses to emphasize that.

Add me to the list of people quite curious about what your animal-riding-centric games are like.

Oh, and I just went and grabbed the James Bond basic book and the Q manual. Interesting chase rules, though I'm pretty disappointed in the low grain of the vehicle stats, where Performance Modifier only ranges from -1 to +2, with most cars being 0 or +1, and even then some values seem questionable to me. I'd have to tweak the stats to give more difference between car types, and would probably want to add more types of stats. I get though that that might undermine the James Bond feel, where it's more important to describe how stylishly or amusingly you do stuff, and to have Bond be able to use any vehicle to embarrass people due to his raw uberskills.

(Games that allow and focus on dragon-riding (...) could also qualify, sort of. ;-) )

Bren

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2015, 06:13:40 PM »
Quote from: flyingmice;848615
Ah! He didn't say that - or if he did I missed it!
He didn't. Most of use assumed it. I said it.

Quote
I do have a plan on my back burner to do some sort of cavalry game, which would use the rules for Volant Bird riding adapted to 2D. :D

It sounds like there is a niche for a better riding simulation. What I would like would be something that would be easy to adapt or include in other systems. Of course I would like that for systems I use e.g. Call of Cthuhu/Runequest/BRP, WEG D6, and Honor+Intrigue/BoL and that included factors like breed, individual temperament (presumably with some similarity based on breed and lineage), quality of mount, type of care. Including rules for breaking/training and breeding (a generational game?) might be interesting. Things to simulate would include speed, stamina, carrying capacity, and robustness (by that I mean the difference between a steppe pony that can survive on almost any fodder and a more finicky Arabian or Destrier that needs grain to keep it fed.
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flyingmice

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2015, 06:50:07 PM »
Quote from: Bren;848650
He didn't. Most of use assumed it. I said it.


It sounds like there is a niche for a better riding simulation. What I would like would be something that would be easy to adapt or include in other systems. Of course I would like that for systems I use e.g. Call of Cthuhu/Runequest/BRP, WEG D6, and Honor+Intrigue/BoL and that included factors like breed, individual temperament (presumably with some similarity based on breed and lineage), quality of mount, type of care. Including rules for breaking/training and breeding (a generational game?) might be interesting. Things to simulate would include speed, stamina, carrying capacity, and robustness (by that I mean the difference between a steppe pony that can survive on almost any fodder and a more finicky Arabian or Destrier that needs grain to keep it fed.


I *always* try to set these things up to be easily portable. The birds in Volant are set up with carrying capacity - women are favored as riders because they are lighter than men - which could be easily adapted. Breeds and temperment are integral to both games and could be handled the same way. Diet was indicated - some birds can be fed on carrion, while others need nectar or specific foods - but there was no mechanic for that. Rules for breeding could be interesting - fixing traits, breeding out and in, culling - it would be generational, but could be an interesting sub-game.
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David Johansen

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2015, 06:57:25 PM »
I'm fond of the Rolemaster Standard System approach where your riding skill acts as a cap on your mounted combat skill which acts as a cap on weapon skills while mounted.  There's a specific mounted combat skill for each weapon and a specific riding skill for each type of mount.  Then you get your horse's movement rate and it's activity for the round but you have to decide how much of your activity you want to use while riding which sets the difficulty of any riding skill rolls you might want to make.  So a skilled rider essentially gets free movement and can use all their skill to attack but an unskilled rider can't.
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Omega

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2015, 07:02:50 PM »
There were at least two articles in Dragon on horses and riding

I still have somewhere a d20 D&D booklet about mounts called Fur and Feather circa 2002. This was a really well thought out book with lots of info on types of horses, and riding, as well as non-standard mounts like familliars even.

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2015, 09:48:29 PM »
Quote from: Bren;848650
He didn't. Most of use assumed it. I said it.


I intended to leave it open for any animal riding system. Flying beasts are fine.

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2015, 10:52:11 PM »
Quote from: flyingmice;848659
I *always* try to set these things up to be easily portable. The birds in Volant are set up with carrying capacity - women are favored as riders because they are lighter than men - which could be easily adapted. Breeds and temperment are integral to both games and could be handled the same way. Diet was indicated - some birds can be fed on carrion, while others need nectar or specific foods - but there was no mechanic for that. Rules for breeding could be interesting - fixing traits, breeding out and in, culling - it would be generational, but could be an interesting sub-game.
I'd be interested.
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jibbajibba

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2015, 11:58:39 PM »
Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;848608
Here's how I handle it in ZWEIHÄNDER ->

Local Movement
Increase local movement by 3 yards if on a pony, 6 yards if on a riding horse and 9 yards if on a war horse.

Entering Combat On An Animal
If a pony, make a (Challenging -10) Handle Animal Test. If a riding horse, make a (Standard +/-0%) Handle Animal Test. If a war horse, make a (Routine +10%) Handle Animal Test. Upon success, you can take advantage of the following benefits:

1: Melee and Ranged Attacks
Whenever attacking with melee weapons atop, add +10 Base Chance. When attacking with ranged weapons atop, subtract -10 Base Chance.

2: Better Protection
Add +1 Damage Threshold, due to height of the animal.

FINAL NOTE: Miscellaneous Usage
Some Talents allow you to Dodge - using your Ride Skill - in the saddle. Other Talents allow you to ride faster, while others allow you to mitigate the penalties for ranged attacks.

Easy peasy!


The trouble with these sorts of rules is that a horse chase basically becomes the protagonists moving their horse marker round on a map. They make a skill roll each round and move the horse marker its mvnt speed perhaps with a slight variant if you allow skill to actually effect movement and in play turns this is about as exciting as breaking out a snakes and ladders mini game.

Either you have a great large scale map/board and you build an entire sub-game round horse chases or you abstract it and try to add excitement through the rules.

The JB system is built to replicate car chases at 90 mph through European mountain ranges or speed boat chases through the Everglades they realized early on that tracking movement each round precisely and mapping all  the terrain was impossible and if you did even try to do that your exciting car chase that should take 10 minutes to resolve becomes a game of car wars that takes 4 hours to resolve (car wars by the way is great but it is not an "exciting" game experience).
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Bren

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2015, 12:29:22 AM »
You need to do us all a favor and write up a portable version of 007-esque horse chases.
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David Johansen

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2015, 01:24:56 AM »
Basically you'd have players bid riding skill penalties in exchange for initiative.  The range bands should probably be in horse lengths due to the subtle horse racing reference.

Chases are run in hours until the range closes to less than 50 lengths / 100paces at which point they drop to rounds.  It is assumed that a round is about 10 seconds.

The general actions would be:
Run - speed 4 lengths, -40 to hit, no turning, 2 Fatigue per turn
Gallop - speed 3 lengths, -30 to hit, wide turns only, 1 Fatigue per turn
Trot - speed 2 length, -20 to hit, tight turn, 2 Fatigue per hour
Walk - speed 1 length, -10 to hit, 1 Fatigue per hour
Stop - Opponents Automatically close or open as appropriate

When Fatigue > 1/2 Endurance, speed -1 (so you have to run to get speed 3)
When Fatigue > 3/4 Endurance, speed -2 (so you have to run to get speed 2)
This means you tire out faster when you are tired.

Humans running all out count as trotting.  Other human movement counts as walking.

Pony: Maximum Speed Gallop, Endurance 16
Race Horse: Maximum Speed Run +1, Endurance 12
Riding Horse: Maximum Speed Run, Endurance 14
War Horse: Maximum Speed Gallop, Endurance 12

Turning is a part of movement that breaks line of sight unless the opponent.

Pursuers are lost if two tight turns or three wide turns can be accomplished while out of line of sight or if they run out of Endurance.

You know what?  I'm going to add this to Dragon Shadowed Lands or whatever I'm calling it this week.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 01:27:04 AM by David Johansen »
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jibbajibba

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2015, 03:17:05 AM »
Quote from: Bren;848726
You need to do us all a favor and write up a portable version of 007-esque horse chases.


I will write something up this weekend and post it here.
Will do it for d20 with a 5e spin. I will use DC class as the main parameter but do stunts with Disadvantage for variation (that will make sense when I write it up). Include 12 animal temperaments and a sample of 6 standards for measure - Mule; Courser; Arab; Destrider; Quarter Horse; Andalusian

I will also add some other stuff for contrast - Centaur; Unicorn; Wargs; wolves; lions
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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2015, 06:30:25 AM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;848758
I will write something up this weekend and post it here.
Will do it for d20 with a 5e spin. I will use DC class as the main parameter but do stunts with Disadvantage for variation (that will make sense when I write it up). Include 12 animal temperaments and a sample of 6 standards for measure - Mule; Courser; Arab; Destrider; Quarter Horse; Andalusian

I will also add some other stuff for contrast - Centaur; Unicorn; Wargs; wolves; lions


Thank you.

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2015, 10:30:59 AM »
Quote from: David Johansen;848744


The general actions would be:
Run - speed 4 lengths, -40 to hit, no turning, 2 Fatigue per turn
Gallop - speed 3 lengths, -30 to hit, wide turns only, 1 Fatigue per turn
Trot - speed 2 length, -20 to hit, tight turn, 2 Fatigue per hour
Walk - speed 1 length, -10 to hit, 1 Fatigue per hour
Stop - Opponents Automatically close or open as appropriate

Humans running all out count as trotting.  Other human movement counts as walking.


Just a couple things. I can't remember where I read it, but apparently four legged beasties are just as fast on turns as they are on straights, so at a full run (you left out canter, so your gallop should be canter and your run gallop) they can still make wide turns at full speed.

And since humans are two leggers, we can't make wide turns at full speed (though it isn't that much slower), so limiting top speed to trot is off because of the ability to make tight turns, which we don't have. Besides, there are still four paces, walk, jog, run, sprint. All you'd need to do is adjust length for the various paces depending on how the animal moves. So for example ostriches are faster than humans, but they have a longer stride length. Kangaroos are also faster, but have a different type of stride, etc.

The same basic idea can apply to flyers as well. For example dragonflies top out at 100 body length/second forward and three back,

And I think
 

Skarg

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2015, 11:38:18 AM »
Quote from: apparition13;848792
Just a couple things. I can't remember where I read it, but apparently four legged beasties are just as fast on turns as they are on straights, so at a full run (you left out canter, so your gallop should be canter and your run gallop) they can still make wide turns at full speed.

And since humans are two leggers, we can't make wide turns at full speed (though it isn't that much slower), so limiting top speed to trot is off because of the ability to make tight turns, which we don't have. Besides, there are still four paces, walk, jog, run, sprint. All you'd need to do is adjust length for the various paces depending on how the animal moves. So for example ostriches are faster than humans, but they have a longer stride length. Kangaroos are also faster, but have a different type of stride, etc.

The same basic idea can apply to flyers as well. For example dragonflies top out at 100 body length/second forward and three back,

And I think


Seems to me, humans can turn while sprinting too - it's "just" that each animal has a different comfortable turning radius at each speed, and exceeding it without slowing down is hard and is a matter of skill to avoid stumbling. No?

Skarg

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Best and worst animal riding rules?
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2015, 11:38:54 AM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;848758
I will write something up this weekend and post it here.
Will do it for d20 with a 5e spin. I will use DC class as the main parameter but do stunts with Disadvantage for variation (that will make sense when I write it up). Include 12 animal temperaments and a sample of 6 standards for measure - Mule; Courser; Arab; Destrider; Quarter Horse; Andalusian

I will also add some other stuff for contrast - Centaur; Unicorn; Wargs; wolves; lions


That's a lovely offer! W00t!