Well, my first gaming group was approximately half women and half men from 1977 when I started to the late eighties, even when weekly attendance passe a dozen people. In the nineties, the women members dropped off one by one as they married and had children, until the late nineties, when it was almost always all-male, and I stopped the group due to D&D/Fantasy burnout. My second group has always had at least one woman in it, and when I started running games over IRC in the early 2000s, I usually had some women in those groups.

I suppose this is like disputing Global Warming by throwing a snowball in Congress...

-clash

Quote from: TristramEvans;821127What it came down to is, not many girls were interested. Even to this day, a flat poll of girls over guys will undoubtably find that far fewer women are interested in geeky subjects. More are willing now, than any point in history, to give such hobbies a chance, now that the social stigma is lifted, but we are still talking about activities that the majority of women in the world simply dont have any interest in.

Anecdotes can be useful, but any single person's sampling isn't the whole story. I know a number of women who say they were put off by sexism in the geek community, as well as some who didn't have a problem. Who is more representative? I don't know for sure. That's why I cited the surveys, although the only one I think is decent is the 1998 WotC survey. (It polled randomized representative households.)

As far as interest in geeky subjects, I think it is quite interesting. Women have made enormous strides within s number of traditionally geeky subjects: biology, chemistry, physics, and others. Computers have definitely been associated with increasingly high status since the 1980s. However, the number of women in computing has been decreasing.



Something that is clear to me is that the percentage of women is clearly strongly affected by culture and society.

Quote from: jhkim;821149Computers have definitely been associated with increasingly high status since the 1980s. However, the number of women in computing has been decreasing.

Computer science used to have an 'IBM' image - safe and respectable. Starting in the early '80s Steve Jobs and co turned it into a geek wonderland. Women who wanted a safe conformist career ceased entering the profession.
It may be that as Geekery gets higher social status these days, we may see more female computer programmers again (one of my main D&D group players was a young female programmer - she left recently after graduation). However computer programming, is hard, and high talent women have a lot of easier & lucrative career options such as Law* (my field), so I think it will continue to mostly appeal to the more nerdy object-focused mindset that is more typically** male.

*Law at University undergraduate level is about 2/3 female in the UK. I'm surprised that graph shows it under 50% in the US, but maybe being a postgrad subject in the US is a factor.

**Although Australia seems to be full of women who are terrifyingly competent masters of the very crunchy 4e D&D game combat system. Must be something in the water (or the beer?)

Quote from: S'mon;821235**Although Australia seems to be full of women who are terrifyingly competent masters of the very crunchy 4e D&D game combat system. Must be something in the water (or the beer?)

it is a cause of great shame to me that my countrymen love beer so much i mean i dont drink at all but beer has got to be the worst of the alcohols

Quote from: S'mon;821235Must be something in the water (or the beer?)

Wait, I thought "water" was Australian for American beer?

Quote from: jhkim;821149As far as interest in geeky subjects, I think it is quite interesting. Women have made enormous strides within s number of traditionally geeky subjects: biology, chemistry, physics, and others.

Honestly, that is not what I meant by geeky subjects. I was referring more to superheroes, barbarians, monsters, giant robots, ninjas, etc. I've never associated women with having less of an interest in scientific pursuits. Maybe because Ada Lovelace is one of my heroes.

Interestingly, 2 often maligned geek interests that do seem to have an equal or better number of female adherents are horror films and cheesecake art.

Quote from: tuypo1;820773i have not been doing this for as long as the rest of you but i also have never seen any problems of the sort. i see the occasional creeper on /tg/ asking for advice on attracting the woman in there group but they are swiftly insulted with incredible ferocity so it sure as hell aint tolerated. even then its very rare to see that you might get it once every 3 or 4 months.

found one look at it and witness the rage an entire hobby can bring to bear upon 1 man

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/38841739/how-do-i-get-qt-girls-in-my-games

Quote from: TristramEvans;821246Honestly, that is not what I meant by geeky subjects. I was referring more to superheroes, barbarians, monsters, giant robots, ninjas, etc. I've never associated women with having less of an interest in scientific pursuits. Maybe because Ada Lovelace is one of my heroes.

Interestingly, 2 often maligned geek interests that do seem to have an equal or better number of female adherents are horror films and cheesecake art.

If you think that women are just as interested in science, how do you explain that in the 1980s they had had much less degrees in science than they do today?

One common answer is that back in the 1980s there was sexism, but that at present there is no significant sexism - and thus the supposed lower interest of women in RPGs, superheroes, barbarians, monsters, etc. - as well as their lower participation in computer science - just reflects the natural inclinations due to being women.

I don't find this convincing. I think that culture has been shifting to loosen up traditional gender roles, and this has driven change in women's participation.

In many other geeky fields besides science, there has been a major shift. In science fiction and fantasy media, many of the recent hits have been female-dominated. Here are some stories on it:

http://www.today.com/id/32586742/ns/today-today_entertainment/t/emerging-face-geek-fandom-female/

http://entertainment.time.com/2012/09/12/introducing-the-new-face-of-fandom-women/

lol, I never claimed that sexism didnt exist in the 80s. Thats absurd. Youre tangent regarding school subjects just literally had nothing to do with what was being discussed. I dont conflate any science, even computer science, with geeky subjects. Sure there may be a higher population of geeks in those fields, but that has more to do with geeks on the whole being more inclined to intellectual pursuits than many other social groups. Not as much as nerds however. And nerds are their own thing. Not being a part of that subculture, I cannot comment on it, other than observing there are some crossovers in atypical interests.

What is interesting to note, however, is that both articles imply that women are getting into geeky pursuits more now because those hobbies are more socially acceptable. So maybe its just that guys, ultimately, care less about social acceptance.

Quote from: TristramEvans;821263What is interesting to note, however, is that both articles imply that women are getting into geeky pursuits more now because those hobbies are more socially acceptable. So maybe its just that guys, ultimately, care less about social acceptance.

Yup, I don't have any sources to hand but AIR that's well supported.

Quote from: Nexus;821244Wait, I thought "water" was Australian for American beer?

It is also American for most American beers.

Geez. This discussion starts with the question as to whether female dwarves have beards and before you know it the elfphiles use their "Elves are the Coolest" privelege to try to make the discussion all about elves.

Then you got the SJWs trying to privelege their real world human politics over a discussion about an imaginary race. If the idea of a discussion as to whether or not female dwarves have beards is "problematic" to you then I suggest you're abusing your "Humans are Actually Real" privelege to judge the aesthetics and beauty standards of a non-human, imaginary species.

I'm sure someone's insisting that dwarves and elves are just masks or filters for expressing human arguments. Maybe for some, but I'd call that a boring lack of imagination. In fact I'll examine my "I probably have more sense than you privelege". What do you know? I have it, and I'm 100% comfortable using it, along with my "priveleges" of internet access and being able to read and write that allows me to participate in this thread, but disenfranchises those who don't have those priveleges.

I'm on an almost mandatory vacation with my extended family. I try to take a little bit of a break from it by coming here to escape and I find half the posts in this thread spouting some pseudo Red Guard Self-Criticism nonsense. (If only the SJWs would be content at criticizing their own selfs instead of insisting everyone else ruining their fun with obsessive witch hunts for guilt.)

Finally, to actually add to the original topic. Yes, in my campaigns adult female dwarves can grow beards. In my home Greyhawk campaign women of the hill dwarves typically shave their facial hair due to more interaction with humans and halflings whose women cannot grow beards. The women of the mountain dwarves let their beards grow out, and are as bountiful as the beards if their men. Insisting dwarves must have the same standards of beauty and sexual dimorphism as humans is as stupid as sticking tits on dragonborn females. There's my .02¢.

Quote from: tuypo1;821240it is a cause of great shame to me that my countrymen love beer so much i mean i dont drink at all but beer has got to be the worst of the alcohols

I'm Australian and I don't drink alcohol.
I used to in my 20s but got sick of it by my late 20s and just stopped.

I must say whilst many people I know DO drink, it doesn't to be as strong a theme as it was 20 years ago.

I know a lot of people across a lot of age ranges and sure most of them drink at some capacity. But only a few drink habitually.

It's probably as the interests I have might draw in those people who don't drink much, which is mostly about, computers, books, RPGs, boardgames, Astronomy and other stuff like that.
I don't frequent pubs anymore and haven't for many years.

So I expect in certain circles it's a big thing. It seems like a waste of money to me to spend so much time and money getting drunk, but hey, each to their own.

Quote from: wmarshal;821341Geez. This discussion starts with the question as to whether female dwarves have beards and before you know it the elfphiles use their "Elves are the Coolest" privelege to try to make the discussion all about elves.

Then you got the SJWs trying to privelege their real world human politics over a discussion about an imaginary race. If the idea of a discussion as to whether or not female dwarves have beards is "problematic" to you then I suggest you're abusing your "Humans are Actually Real" privelege to judge the aesthetics and beauty standards of a non-human, imaginary species.

I'm sure someone's insisting that dwarves and elves are just masks or filters for expressing human arguments. Maybe for some, but I'd call that a boring lack of imagination. In fact I'll examine my "I probably have more sense than you privelege". What do you know? I have it, and I'm 100% comfortable using it, along with my "priveleges" of internet access and being able to read and write that allows me to participate in this thread, but disenfranchises those who don't have those priveleges.

I'm on an almost mandatory vacation with my extended family. I try to take a little bit of a break from it by coming here to escape and I find half the posts in this thread spouting some pseudo Red Guard Self-Criticism nonsense. (If only the SJWs would be content at criticizing their own selfs instead of insisting everyone else ruining their fun with obsessive witch hunts for guilt.)

Finally, to actually add to the original topic. Yes, in my campaigns adult female dwarves can grow beards. In my home Greyhawk campaign women of the hill dwarves typically shave their facial hair due to more interaction with humans and halflings whose women cannot grow beards. The women of the mountain dwarves let their beards grow out, and are as bountiful as the beards if their men. Insisting dwarves must have the same standards of beauty and sexual dimorphism as humans is as stupid as sticking tits on dragonborn females. There's my .02¢.

i auctualy dont mind tits on dragonborn they do have a base race after all the verdict is still out on nipples though

it is sad that some people have no internet access or cant read and write

Quote from: tuypo1;821413it is sad that some people have no internet access or cant read and write

So says the person that is worried about bandwidth, and can not be bothered to use punctuation, and other skills of reading and writing. Irony, can you folks out there taste it?