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Author Topic: Are we seeing the end of combat?  (Read 10748 times)

Bren

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #165 on: October 21, 2021, 11:46:10 PM »
My group had a discussion of why stun isn't the default assumption for most non-military engagements. You can always kill off a stunned opponent if you feel the need, but returning life to somone you mistakenly/carelessly shot with a lethal load of blaster/phaser is a lot harder (if possible at all). Star Trek makes it easy for this mindset, at least with Starfleet character, but Star Wars is a harder sell. We rarely see heroes use stun settings in Star Wars (until the cartoons), but when it's a standard feature on almost all standard blaster weapons, you have to wonder why.
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #166 on: October 21, 2021, 11:50:47 PM »
My group had a discussion of why stun isn't the default assumption for most non-military engagements. You can always kill off a stunned opponent if you feel the need, but returning life to somone you mistakenly/carelessly shot with a lethal load of blaster/phaser is a lot harder (if possible at all). Star Trek makes it easy for this mindset, at least with Starfleet character, but Star Wars is a harder sell. We rarely see heroes use stun settings in Star Wars (until the cartoons), but when it's a standard feature on almost all standard blaster weapons, you have to wonder why.
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.

Because when someone is shooting at you with live ammo the sane response is to shoot at them with blanks...

Leave it to HappyDerp to have a totally Derp take.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #167 on: October 22, 2021, 12:40:38 AM »
My group had a discussion of why stun isn't the default assumption for most non-military engagements. You can always kill off a stunned opponent if you feel the need, but returning life to somone you mistakenly/carelessly shot with a lethal load of blaster/phaser is a lot harder (if possible at all). Star Trek makes it easy for this mindset, at least with Starfleet character, but Star Wars is a harder sell. We rarely see heroes use stun settings in Star Wars (until the cartoons), but when it's a standard feature on almost all standard blaster weapons, you have to wonder why.
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.
There are lot more types of opponents in Star Wars than just Stormtroopers and Imperials.

HappyDaze

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #168 on: October 22, 2021, 12:41:36 AM »
My group had a discussion of why stun isn't the default assumption for most non-military engagements. You can always kill off a stunned opponent if you feel the need, but returning life to somone you mistakenly/carelessly shot with a lethal load of blaster/phaser is a lot harder (if possible at all). Star Trek makes it easy for this mindset, at least with Starfleet character, but Star Wars is a harder sell. We rarely see heroes use stun settings in Star Wars (until the cartoons), but when it's a standard feature on almost all standard blaster weapons, you have to wonder why.
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.

Because when someone is shooting at you with live ammo the sane response is to shoot at them with blanks...

Leave it to HappyDerp to have a totally Derp take.
The game mechanics of several of the SW systems make stun settings better in some ways than the standard lethal blaster loads.

Also, the Bad Batch seem to use stun settings against Storm Troopers quite often.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #169 on: October 22, 2021, 01:04:51 AM »
My group had a discussion of why stun isn't the default assumption for most non-military engagements. You can always kill off a stunned opponent if you feel the need, but returning life to somone you mistakenly/carelessly shot with a lethal load of blaster/phaser is a lot harder (if possible at all). Star Trek makes it easy for this mindset, at least with Starfleet character, but Star Wars is a harder sell. We rarely see heroes use stun settings in Star Wars (until the cartoons), but when it's a standard feature on almost all standard blaster weapons, you have to wonder why.
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.

On a purely technical point, the only time (in the films) we see the stun setting used on a blaster is-
When the Stormtroopers are intentionally attempting to capture what appears to be a high value person with important data.
At very short range.

We don't know, but it's not unreasonable to think the stun setting might be extremely short ranged, maybe out past 100 ft/30m the stun effect drops off dramatically. That would make the stun setting only useful in specific circumstances.

And, for another example, stunning poor Greedo doesn't send the same message to Jabba as turning him into BBQ. Any bounty hunters going after Han know that he's not playing on the stun setting.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 01:08:05 AM by Ratman_tf »
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S'mon

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #170 on: October 22, 2021, 02:33:24 AM »
On a purely technical point, the only time (in the films) we see the stun setting used on a blaster is-
When the Stormtroopers are intentionally attempting to capture what appears to be a high value person with important data.
At very short range.

We don't know, but it's not unreasonable to think the stun setting might be extremely short ranged, maybe out past 100 ft/30m the stun effect drops off dramatically. That would make the stun setting only useful in specific circumstances.

Yes - it looks like it's a wide spread effect, so likely very short effective range. And there's no reason to think it works on armoured targets.

Jason Coplen

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #171 on: October 22, 2021, 01:12:27 PM »
(4) I foresee that for all the gritty optimism about how "RPGnet is dying" etc., I still see, according to their own stats anyway, they have over 100,000 members and this place has under 9,000. And, of the ones who bothered to respond to this thread, half see no problem, while the other half slag the messenger. At the risk of being a Cassandra, I think this is naïve.

I have not seen even one person supporting your proposition that "We are seeing the end of combat"

Maybe you could rustle up some of your 100,000 mates?

I'm definitely not one of his mates, but a mod on TBP started a post about combat being unnecessary. I couldn't quit rolling my eyes.
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Slipshot762

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #172 on: October 22, 2021, 06:21:13 PM »
the original mechanics for stun in weg 2e revised was sorta wonky, we always just treated it like a normal attack whose damage result was capped at incapacitated with no danger of worsening. otherwise it was mechanically more advantageous to stun literally everyone rather than blast them.

GriswaldTerrastone

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #173 on: October 22, 2021, 06:25:59 PM »
Stun, or any non-lethal attack (e.g. sleep-bolt arrows) make perfect sense in situations where you want to take prisoners or if the attacker is being controlled or coerced. But these are infrequent- attacking orcs are evil and Aragorn & Co. weren't about to waste time being nice.

But it would be consistent for good characters to have such means just in case.
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PsyXypher

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #174 on: October 22, 2021, 11:43:14 PM »
This seems to be an extension of woke ideologies. I won't soon forget when self proclaimed TTRPG fans on Twitter decided to take a comment by Wizards of the Coast about Orcs having violent tendencies and immediately saying "This is what WotC thinks of black people!" With the irony of their statement of comparing black people to Orcs completely lost on them.

Really, I think this is an inversion of the "Humanocentric" idea that D&D originally had. In that "This creature has traits that seem human, thus it must be identical to a human in every way!". Thing is, that's not correct, and one need look no further than Travis the Chimp for a real life example. There's nothing wrong with Orcs being a bunch of bloodthirsty raiders who raze villages to the ground like the Mongols or Vikings and having the vast, VAST majority be like that. It creates conflict, and it makes exceptions to the rule more special. There's a reason Drizzt was so popular back when he first came out.

Don't really think this will change things, because combat is fun. It's just going to ruin certain RPGs and thus create less competition for the really good ones.
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Bren

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #175 on: October 23, 2021, 01:41:52 PM »
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.
There are lot more types of opponents in Star Wars than just Stormtroopers and Imperials.
True, in the original films there's also Jabba and his gangster minions. And for that we have the only good gangster is a dead gangster ethic as seen in Scarface and other Hollywood films of the 1930s.
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HappyDaze

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #176 on: October 23, 2021, 01:46:19 PM »
I thought it was obvious.

Because stormtroopers are Nazis. It's right there in the name.
There are lot more types of opponents in Star Wars than just Stormtroopers and Imperials.
True, in the original films there's also Jabba and his gangster minions. And for that we have the only good gangster is a dead gangster ethic as seen in Scarface and other Hollywood films of the 1930s.
The material has expanded significantly since then. Gangsters are frequently allies (even if shifty ones) or at least an enemy-of-my-enemy. In any case, there are frequent situations where highly effective non-lethal attack options make it a lot easier. Friendly fire problems (infrequent in RPGs where shots almost always hit the person they are aimed at or else just miss everyone) are a lot less serious if the most likely outcome is just short term unconciousness.

Aglondir

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #177 on: October 23, 2021, 02:43:17 PM »
the original mechanics for stun in weg 2e revised was sorta wonky, we always just treated it like a normal attack whose damage result was capped at incapacitated with no danger of worsening. otherwise it was mechanically more advantageous to stun literally everyone rather than blast them.

You are correct. I have been saying this for years, employing the same house rule.

Bren

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Re: Are we seeing the end of combat?
« Reply #178 on: October 25, 2021, 07:56:23 PM »
The material has expanded significantly since then.
Yes. But how stun works in several systems is based on the one instance we see in the very first movie where Leia is stunned. Someone asked, why don't the heroes use stun more. Nazis and gangsters is the answer for the first movies. Cartoons for the kids is one reason why you see a lot more stunning in the later material.
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