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Author Topic: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities  (Read 4502 times)

Lee

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2022, 06:33:40 PM »
Tangentially, I never understood people who were into black metal (enough to take it seriously) who preach about inclusiveness and tolerance. It is a music genre founded on extremity and exclusivity.

I suspect that if the practitioners of wokeism cared about ideological consistency, they wouldn't practice wokeism.  :3
http://www.ocfco.net/info.html <- My contact info and Odysee garbage.
http://www.dizzydragon.net <- My ol' D&D site.

Neoplatonist1

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #61 on: September 15, 2022, 07:36:20 PM »
They didn't appreciate my joke. BECAUSE WOKE IS NO JOKE! (lal)

On a more serious note tho. Why are those woke people so on edge? Why can't they take jokes? Why am I a bigot and a transphobe? Shit.

I've heard that young religions tend to be touchier than old ones. I'm sure you can think of a few like that. Woke is no different.

Aglondir

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #62 on: September 15, 2022, 07:37:07 PM »
...you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

It will answer all your questions.

Actually... I think it did



The Spaniard

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2022, 09:01:28 AM »
Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

It will answer all your questions.

That's a good read

jhkim

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2022, 02:31:12 PM »
Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

It's an interesting read. I dislike using "sociopath" because it's a technical term with a clinical meaning, when I doubt there has been any real diagnosis.

Still, the general point is fine about creators, fans, and those in it for profit and/or power - what I'd call profiteers. Its point is that the distinction of creators and profiteers is their actual creations. The way to distinguish profiteers (what they call sociopaths) is that they don't create good gaming material.

It doesn't go into how to "be slightly evil" and avoid the problem of profiteers. From what it says, though, one can avoid profiteers by putting the focus on actual playable gaming material, and not on social media statements, author personality, or similar.

Brooding Paladin

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2022, 04:13:40 PM »
Dang, that was a really good article.  I agree with jhkim that we need more info on how to function as a "sociopath" without actually becoming one.  It's too easy to say we need to learn their methods, but if we start off by not being good at what they do, then how do we get there.  Without, in fact, becoming evil.

But this totally explains where the Satine Phoenix/Jamison Stone effect come from and why I, personally have been yearning to "get back to the start" with OSR inclinations, etc.

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE
BANNED

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2022, 04:44:59 PM »
So the other set of articles it references is called "the Gervais principle." It talks about corporate America, but it's a great read regardless - and it also explains what it means by sociopath (in context, it means a person who is empty inside).

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

Give that one a read too, since it goes into more detail and gives more valuable information that can be applied to many life situations. I say this is a current Loser/burgeoning Sociopath/former Clueless.

Aglondir

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2022, 09:15:29 PM »
So the other set of articles it references is called "the Gervais principle." It talks about corporate America, but it's a great read regardless - and it also explains what it means by sociopath (in context, it means a person who is empty inside).

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

Give that one a read too, since it goes into more detail and gives more valuable information that can be applied to many life situations. I say this is a current Loser/burgeoning Sociopath/former Clueless.

Quote from: Gervais Principle
A Sociopath with an idea recruits just enough Losers to kick off the cycle. As it grows it requires a Clueless layer to turn it into a controlled reaction rather than a runaway explosion. Eventually, as value hits diminishing returns, both the Sociopaths and Losers make their exits, and the Clueless start to dominate. Finally, the hollow brittle shell collapses on itself and anything of value is recycled by the sociopaths according to meta-firm logic.

I'm thinking:

1E: Gygax as Sociopath invents the New Great Thing, Lorraine (et.al.) as Clueless try to milk the Thing, 2E is the hollow shell, collapses, and then
3E: Ryan Dancy as Sociopath invents the 3PP Cash Cow, WOTC execs as Clueless milk the cow, 4E is the hollow shell, collapses, and then
5E: Mearls as Sociopath, with a Semi-weak idea of Backwards Compatibility 5E, WOTC execs see a Woke Cow they can milk, but the Wokers turn it into a hollow shell, until

One D&D.

Which you would think would be another new Sociopath (trying to monetize RPG as a Service) but the whole thing is going to sputter and crash.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 09:17:35 PM by Aglondir »

Chris24601

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2022, 08:50:23 AM »
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of “fanatic”-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that’s REALLY hard to scale up… ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base… but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

Shawn Driscoll

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2022, 05:30:17 PM »
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David
Discord is cancer.

Chris24601

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2022, 08:01:46 AM »
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David
Discord is cancer.
Perhaps, but if you only use it for voice chat on a private server with your personal game group it’s a very benign and manageable cancer.

Omega

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2022, 08:57:38 AM »
Well before Discord they were working on the old text MMOs and e-groups like Yahhell before it completely erased every group. BGG and The-other-place, were spearheading the movement.

They infest anything and everything they can. Nothing is safe.

It's a real annoying, hard-to-get-rid-of foot fungus isn't it?

If only it were so easy...  :o

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM »
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of “fanatic”-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that’s REALLY hard to scale up… ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base… but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.
I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.

Lidless_Eye

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2022, 02:17:11 PM »
supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes

What

Ghostmaker

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2022, 03:27:01 PM »
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of “fanatic”-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that’s REALLY hard to scale up… ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base… but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.
I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.
Dude, I will pay money for that kind of game.