TheRPGSite

Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David

Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

I'm just curious as to what you said. Because generally speaking whenever I join retard Discords, I just don't talk about politics, nor do I argue with people, because - and this is a very important thing to consider - you will never change anybody's mind unless they're looking to have it changed. So I just don't bother. And it goes both ways. I was in a more-or-less right-wing Discord about a dude who wanted to run a homebrew PF game, that was going to touch on the issues of slavery. I was like "Okay, cool, are you going to treat it as realistic? Are you going to let us get revenge?" And then he and I got into an Alignment Argument (tm) and eventually I got kicked out because he (correctly) pointed out that he's the DM. I disagreed with that assessment, and left. No big loss, IMO, but the question remains:

What did you say that set them off?

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 10, 2022, 01:50:31 PM
I'm just curious as to what you said. Because generally speaking whenever I join retard Discords, I just don't talk about politics, nor do I argue with people, because - and this is a very important thing to consider - you will never change anybody's mind unless they're looking to have it changed. So I just don't bother. And it goes both ways. I was in a more-or-less right-wing Discord about a dude who wanted to run a homebrew PF game, that was going to touch on the issues of slavery. I was like "Okay, cool, are you going to treat it as realistic? Are you going to let us get revenge?" And then he and I got into an Alignment Argument (tm) and eventually I got kicked out because he (correctly) pointed out that he's the DM. I disagreed with that assessment, and left. No big loss, IMO, but the question remains:

What did you say that set them off?

First off, thanks for taking the time to respond.

I didn't know MB was a woke game for woke people made by woke people. I actually didn't know this.

And the thing I said was the following:
Is this a woke server/game? I didn't know this.
In response to that, "they/she" creature saying We don't like people like yourself.
And I responded: Well, you are are consistent with your pronouns: They, we. :-)

They didn't appreciate my joke. BECAUSE WOKE IS NO JOKE! (lal)

On a more serious note tho. Why are those woke people so on edge? Why can't they take jokes? Why am I a bigot and a transphobe? Shit.

Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

wrong thread but close enough :D

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:58:36 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

wrong thread but close enough :D

Can't comment on that one, I'm threadbanned.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

Off topic. Bye.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David

The moral to this story is, you can create your own games.  Then you own everything about the experience. 😜

Quote from: Jam The MF on September 10, 2022, 02:28:56 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David

The moral to this story is, you can create your own games.  Then you own everything about the experience. 😜

True :-)

Toxicity is inescapable with any fandom, some more than others.

Incoming rant alert!

I have generally terrible experiences whenever I touch the WW fandom. Not surprisingly, considering these are the same people who sent Jess Henig hundreds of death threats because he oversaw metaplot developments in Mage 3e. I got into it around the time Vampire: The Requiem was introduced and jfc were the older fans super butthurt about it. They're still butthurt now and will rip you a new asshole if you say anything positive about VtR. Or V5, which they also hate because it's too much like VtR or whatever asinine justification I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I have my own criticisms of these games but I don't irrationally hate them for being different from their predecessors. I once chatted with a guy who invented reasons to hate Changeling: The Lost because it was too focused on fairies and didn't have Lovecraftian horrors or ancient alien conspiracies. OMG I hate guys who do that because it's clearly bad faith and they have zero self-awareness. At least when I criticize VtR for being too focused on literal bloodsucking it's because I genuinely think many of the bloodlines would work better conceptually if they could have different diets like emotions or luck or whatever seems appropriate. The newer younger fans who joined with V5 don't harp on about how much they hate VtR because they're completely unfamiliar with it, but when I ask they robotically repeat that asinine and wrong party line about how VtR is inferior because it doesn't have lore and lore makes everything better. VtR has over a decade's worth of annoying lore baggage (same as VtM, since they ran out of ideas after the first edition and just keep repackaging the same things over and over) and you would know that if you actually read the fucking books like I did you willfully ignorant shills. Also, I think lore can fuck off and die in a fire. I have lost count of all the franchises that have turned to shit because of "lore". Meanwhile, they never themselves talk about the lore from what I've seen and just like to talk about their generic Lestat OCs. Literally, they play Lestat. They can't think of anything even remotely creative outside of their tiny well trod comfort zones. It's so boring and mind-numbing. I've tried writing interesting stuff about aztec snakepires pining for the good old days of mass human sacrifice, sethian demon hunters fighting apophian cultists, krüger assassins selling their services to kill people in dreams, etc and these zoomers (because they're mostly zoomers, go figure) don't pay any attention whatsoever.

Rant over!

I've gotten so frustrated with this stupid small-minded ttrpg community that I decided to make a crpg instead. While the video game format is much more limiting and I have to juggle the competing creative visions of my co-writers, it gets way more attention and engagement than any ttrpg homebrew I could ever try.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 10, 2022, 03:31:04 PM
Toxicity is inescapable with any fandom, some more than others.

Incoming rant alert!

I have generally terrible experiences whenever I touch the WW fandom. Not surprisingly, considering these are the same people who sent Jess Henig hundreds of death threats because he oversaw metaplot developments in Mage 3e. I got into it around the time Vampire: The Requiem was introduced and jfc were the older fans super butthurt about it. They're still butthurt now and will rip you a new asshole if you say anything positive about VtR. Or V5, which they also hate because it's too much like VtR or whatever asinine justification I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I have my own criticisms of these games but I don't irrationally hate them for being different from their predecessors. I once chatted with a guy who invented reasons to hate Changeling: The Lost because it was too focused on fairies and didn't have Lovecraftian horrors or ancient alien conspiracies. OMG I hate guys who do that because it's clearly bad faith and they have zero self-awareness. At least when I criticize VtR for being too focused on literal bloodsucking it's because I genuinely think many of the bloodlines would work better conceptually if they could have different diets like emotions or luck or whatever seems appropriate. The newer younger fans who joined with V5 don't harp on about how much they hate VtR because they're completely unfamiliar with it, but when I ask they robotically repeat that asinine and wrong party line about how VtR is inferior because it doesn't have lore and lore makes everything better. VtR has over a decade's worth of annoying lore baggage (same as VtM, since they ran out of ideas after the first edition and just keep repackaging the same things over and over) and you would know that if you actually read the fucking books like I did you willfully ignorant shills. Also, I think lore can fuck off and die in a fire. I have lost count of all the franchises that have turned to shit because of "lore". Meanwhile, they never themselves talk about the lore from what I've seen and just like to talk about their generic Lestat OCs. Literally, they play Lestat. They can't think of anything even remotely creative outside of their tiny well trod comfort zones. It's so boring and mind-numbing. I've tried writing interesting stuff about aztec snakepires pining for the good old days of mass human sacrifice, sethian demon hunters fighting apophian cultists, krüger assassins selling their services to kill people in dreams, etc and these zoomers (because they're mostly zoomers, go figure) don't pay any attention whatsoever.

Rant over!

I've gotten so frustrated with this stupid small-minded ttrpg community that I decided to make a crpg instead. While the video game format is much more limiting and I have to juggle the competing creative visions of my co-writers, it gets way more attention and engagement than any ttrpg homebrew I could ever try.

Good for you dude! Hope the crpg brings you more joy :-)

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 03:32:58 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 10, 2022, 03:31:04 PM
Toxicity is inescapable with any fandom, some more than others.

Incoming rant alert!

I have generally terrible experiences whenever I touch the WW fandom. Not surprisingly, considering these are the same people who sent Jess Henig hundreds of death threats because he oversaw metaplot developments in Mage 3e. I got into it around the time Vampire: The Requiem was introduced and jfc were the older fans super butthurt about it. They're still butthurt now and will rip you a new asshole if you say anything positive about VtR. Or V5, which they also hate because it's too much like VtR or whatever asinine justification I don't care. Don't get me wrong, I have my own criticisms of these games but I don't irrationally hate them for being different from their predecessors. I once chatted with a guy who invented reasons to hate Changeling: The Lost because it was too focused on fairies and didn't have Lovecraftian horrors or ancient alien conspiracies. OMG I hate guys who do that because it's clearly bad faith and they have zero self-awareness. At least when I criticize VtR for being too focused on literal bloodsucking it's because I genuinely think many of the bloodlines would work better conceptually if they could have different diets like emotions or luck or whatever seems appropriate. The newer younger fans who joined with V5 don't harp on about how much they hate VtR because they're completely unfamiliar with it, but when I ask they robotically repeat that asinine and wrong party line about how VtR is inferior because it doesn't have lore and lore makes everything better. VtR has over a decade's worth of annoying lore baggage (same as VtM, since they ran out of ideas after the first edition and just keep repackaging the same things over and over) and you would know that if you actually read the fucking books like I did you willfully ignorant shills. Also, I think lore can fuck off and die in a fire. I have lost count of all the franchises that have turned to shit because of "lore". Meanwhile, they never themselves talk about the lore from what I've seen and just like to talk about their generic Lestat OCs. Literally, they play Lestat. They can't think of anything even remotely creative outside of their tiny well trod comfort zones. It's so boring and mind-numbing. I've tried writing interesting stuff about aztec snakepires pining for the good old days of mass human sacrifice, sethian demon hunters fighting apophian cultists, krüger assassins selling their services to kill people in dreams, etc and these zoomers (because they're mostly zoomers, go figure) don't pay any attention whatsoever.

Rant over!

I've gotten so frustrated with this stupid small-minded ttrpg community that I decided to make a crpg instead. While the video game format is much more limiting and I have to juggle the competing creative visions of my co-writers, it gets way more attention and engagement than any ttrpg homebrew I could ever try.

Good for you dude! Hope the crpg brings you more joy :-)

Thanks! Hope you have good luck too

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned ...  <snip>

Everywhere is like that now.  It's exceptionally demotivating.

I took a break from the hobby for about a decade because RL.  I come back and discover that the inmates are running the asylum.

If I didn't already have a million things requiring my attention, I'd start some kind of ttrpg podcast, just to try to push back with an alternate perspective.

Not long ago, I got banned from a discord for simply stating that I thought that maybe we ought to leave our RL politics at the door when we come to the table, and try to enjoy our imaginary fantasy worlds together as friends, without all the divisive crap.  But I guess "silence is violence" or whatever-the-fk nowadays, and anyone who isn't a raving woke idiot is adjacent to Uncle Adolf.  Kek.

Dragonsfoot and RPGpub seem to still be mostly ok.  They're not explicitly UNwoke, but they're not infested with crazies either.  This place is alright, but (no offense guys) I feel like the ratio of political talk to actual gaming talk skews too far into the political.  I'm guilty of that too I am sure, but just saying.

That being said, I do think it is important to participate in places like Dragonsfoot and RPGpub, so as to gently push back against that kind of crap so that those places remain neutral and don't get taken over by wokists.  Whether by design or circumstance, the wokist agenda with online communities appears to be to find neutral places, infiltrate their moderation team, and start purging people who are not woke.  This must be prevented.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PMWhat's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"?

When my tinfoil hat is especially tight, I toy with the idea of it being part of a grand Maoist plan to destroy western culture.  That may be a little extreme.  It violates Occam's Razor, after all.

I think it's more likely that it's a self-promoting mass hysteria, much like the Satanic Panic of the 80s.  It is most certainly taken advantage of by various political entities in the authoritarian left to further their own agenda, but I don't think it's a tool entirely invented and controlled by the authoritarian left.

I think that, like the Satanic Panic, it's a "fad of the idiocracy" (tell me again why we have a universal franchise?), and that it will eventually pass into history and we'll look back and laugh at it.  Which isn't to say that we shouldn't fight it tooth and nail in the present, because it is a stupid, evil ideology that destroys everything that it infests.  Just that we can most certainly defeat it if we push back instead of ignoring it in the interest of "tolerance".  Perhaps it's an over-dramatic metaphor, but you ignore the wolves prowling the edge of your pastures at your own peril.

Well before Discord they were working on the old text MMOs and e-groups like Yahhell before it completely erased every group. BGG and The-other-place, were spearheading the movement.

They infest anything and everything they can. Nothing is safe.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

My dude.

Are you actually gullible enough to think that I take phrenology or physiognomy seriously? Or do you think that I was saying shit to get under the idiot's skin? Think for a fucking second. Or do you believe everything on the Internet? Because if that's the case, then I have a Nigerian Prince you might want to talk to.  I literally have a SHIZO STAR as my avatar and my name is "I HATE THE ANTICHRIST." Like, consider that maybe, just maybe I'm just taking the piss and not taking anything seriously, because it's the Internet.

Quote from: Omega on September 10, 2022, 07:24:17 PM
Well before Discord they were working on the old text MMOs and e-groups like Yahhell before it completely erased every group. BGG and The-other-place, were spearheading the movement.

They infest anything and everything they can. Nothing is safe.

Yeah, but you can and should gatekeep. People shouldn't feel welcome until you want them there.

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 10, 2022, 08:20:46 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

My dude.

Are you actually gullible enough to think that I take phrenology or physiognomy seriously? Or do you think that I was saying shit to get under the idiot's skin? Think for a fucking second. Or do you believe everything on the Internet? Because if that's the case, then I have a Nigerian Prince you might want to talk to.  I literally have a SHIZO STAR as my avatar and my name is "I HATE THE ANTICHRIST." Like, consider that maybe, just maybe I'm just taking the piss and not taking anything seriously, because it's the Internet.

Calm your sparkley tits starshine, he wasn't referring to you.

If he was, well shame on me.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

I got the same impression after I bought the game and read the book. It gets hyped massively, but it's a big stinkin' pile of woke crap.

A few years back, I bought Troika!, and boy, was I in for a surprise. Love the game, HATE the community (those asshats tried to discredit me on my own Discord server...).

Quote
What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"?

"Perish with the dogs of reason", said Master Crowley, so just don't try to find a reason. There probably are too many of them. What counts is the bottom line, and that bottom line is fucked up.

Are you there to participate in gaming discussions or politics?  It seems insane to immediately question participants if a Discord channel is woke.

No loss though since it's Mork Borg.  The game is crap and the setting is nothing that hasn't been done hundreds of times.  Some may enjoy the art but it's not my thing.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

That´s odd to hear from a scene that uses "Black Metal is intolerance" as a slogan among others such as this (I used to be part of the scene 10+ years, didn´t see much tolerance flying around, quite the opposite infact)

Anyhow, I personally have not been part of any Discord groups, but in a few offline gaming groups and communities infested with red-green-lefties babbling about their veganism, communism, misandry and hatred of rightwing politician x, whom ever they were hating on. Best GM I ever had in my 25ish gaming hobby, but the dorkness was something else. Needless to say, I bailed. Also used to be in other groups that were just plain dumb in other ways, a group of engineers who basically believed everything the media spouted. Education clearly ain´t a sign of capability in thinking for yourself. So yeah, like others mentioned, it is everywhere nowdays.

This might not be exactly what you are after and I´m not sure if it works for you, though what I´v done is I handpicked individuals for my
gaming group, many groups seem to have atleast one sound-minded individual which you get along with and can hopefully drag in your group and ditch the rest  ::)

Quote from: Lee on September 10, 2022, 05:04:14 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned ...  <snip>

Everywhere is like that now.  It's exceptionally demotivating.

I took a break from the hobby for about a decade because RL.  I come back and discover that the inmates are running the asylum.

If I didn't already have a million things requiring my attention, I'd start some kind of ttrpg podcast, just to try to push back with an alternate perspective.

Not long ago, I got banned from a discord for simply stating that I thought that maybe we ought to leave our RL politics at the door when we come to the table, and try to enjoy our imaginary fantasy worlds together as friends, without all the divisive crap.  But I guess "silence is violence" or whatever-the-fk nowadays, and anyone who isn't a raving woke idiot is adjacent to Uncle Adolf.  Kek.

Dragonsfoot and RPGpub seem to still be mostly ok.  They're not explicitly UNwoke, but they're not infested with crazies either.  This place is alright, but (no offense guys) I feel like the ratio of political talk to actual gaming talk skews too far into the political.  I'm guilty of that too I am sure, but just saying.

That being said, I do think it is important to participate in places like Dragonsfoot and RPGpub, so as to gently push back against that kind of crap so that those places remain neutral and don't get taken over by wokists.  Whether by design or circumstance, the wokist agenda with online communities appears to be to find neutral places, infiltrate their moderation team, and start purging people who are not woke.  This must be prevented.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PMWhat's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"?

When my tinfoil hat is especially tight, I toy with the idea of it being part of a grand Maoist plan to destroy western culture.  That may be a little extreme.  It violates Occam's Razor, after all.

I think it's more likely that it's a self-promoting mass hysteria, much like the Satanic Panic of the 80s.  It is most certainly taken advantage of by various political entities in the authoritarian left to further their own agenda, but I don't think it's a tool entirely invented and controlled by the authoritarian left.

I think that, like the Satanic Panic, it's a "fad of the idiocracy" (tell me again why we have a universal franchise?), and that it will eventually pass into history and we'll look back and laugh at it.  Which isn't to say that we shouldn't fight it tooth and nail in the present, because it is a stupid, evil ideology that destroys everything that it infests.  Just that we can most certainly defeat it if we push back instead of ignoring it in the interest of "tolerance".  Perhaps it's an over-dramatic metaphor, but you ignore the wolves prowling the edge of your pastures at your own peril.

I can't say anything else but: amen to that.
And coming from an atheist, that means a lot ;-) (Added you on Discord)

Quote from: Omega on September 10, 2022, 07:24:17 PM
Well before Discord they were working on the old text MMOs and e-groups like Yahhell before it completely erased every group. BGG and The-other-place, were spearheading the movement.

They infest anything and everything they can. Nothing is safe.

It's a real annoying, hard-to-get-rid-of foot fungus isn't it?

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 08:24:27 PM

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 10, 2022, 08:20:46 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 10, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Oh, goody, now we have a nazi apologist and a tard that loves to measure skulls but says he's not a nazi.

Buying popcorn.

My dude.

Are you actually gullible enough to think that I take phrenology or physiognomy seriously? Or do you think that I was saying shit to get under the idiot's skin? Think for a fucking second. Or do you believe everything on the Internet? Because if that's the case, then I have a Nigerian Prince you might want to talk to.  I literally have a SHIZO STAR as my avatar and my name is "I HATE THE ANTICHRIST." Like, consider that maybe, just maybe I'm just taking the piss and not taking anything seriously, because it's the Internet.

Calm your sparkley tits starshine, he wasn't referring to you.

If he was, well shame on me.

Shush.

Quote from: Palleon on September 10, 2022, 08:52:02 PM
Are you there to participate in gaming discussions or politics?  It seems insane to immediately question participants if a Discord channel is woke.

No loss though since it's Mork Borg.  The game is crap and the setting is nothing that hasn't been done hundreds of times.  Some may enjoy the art but it's not my thing.

Yeah, Mörk Borg isn't truly original, but the artwork is insanely well done. And the game is really fun. But I had to cancel my 100 EURO order because "I'm a fascist".

Thanks for your two cents by the way!

Quote from: Angry Goblin on September 11, 2022, 10:46:14 AM

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

That´s odd to hear from a scene that uses "Black Metal is intolerance" as a slogan among others such as this (I used to be part of the scene 10+ years, didn´t see much tolerance flying around, quite the opposite infact)

Anyhow, I personally have not been part of any Discord groups, but in a few offline gaming groups and communities infested with red-green-lefties babbling about their veganism, communism, misandry and hatred of rightwing politician x, whom ever they were hating on. Best GM I ever had in my 25ish gaming hobby, but the dorkness was something else. Needless to say, I bailed. Also used to be in other groups that were just plain dumb in other ways, a group of engineers who basically believed everything the media spouted. Education clearly ain´t a sign of capability in thinking for yourself. So yeah, like others mentioned, it is everywhere nowdays.

This might not be exactly what you are after and I´m not sure if it works for you, though what I´v done is I handpicked individuals for my
gaming group, many groups seem to have atleast one sound-minded individual which you get along with and can hopefully drag in your group and ditch the rest  ::)

Black metal is intolerance? Black metal is hate (or nihilism - or if it's actually "true": satanic). Hate towards oneself and society. Well, for the most part. Originally.

I've got my own discord and website because I want my own not-so-woke game and Sword and Sorcery lends itself perfectly for this.
Thanks for replying! Appreciate it.

Honestly, the best use for Discord is closed circles among your friends and fellow vetted players.

I'm trying to think if I was heavily invested in any RPG community that manifested the levels of toxicity people are alluding to, and I can honestly say 'Not to my knowledge'. The only community I'm anywhere close to being interested in is Battletech, which has had its ups and downs (especially of late, with Pardoe's unceremonious ejection), but never struck me anywhere near as appalling as the White Wolf community.

I'm picky about the people I communicate with online... I don't spend any time with any RPG groups that bleat on about politics. If I ever want to talk about politics I'll go to a different place. For me, RPGs and politics don't mix.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Certain facebook groups?

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Guilded.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 11, 2022, 07:11:25 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Certain facebook groups?

Thanks. Allow me to rephrase. Is there a better place for doing the same thing that is not Facebook?

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 08:15:37 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 11, 2022, 07:11:25 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Certain facebook groups?

Thanks. Allow me to rephrase. Is there a better place for doing the same thing that is not Facebook?

Hm... Fair point. I'm not a big fan of FB but I have to use it to keep in touch with certain clients and jobs, etc.

I don't really know, sadly tbh. I hope there are!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 11, 2022, 07:41:11 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Guilded.

Matrix.

The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.
Will do. Thanks!

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 07:44:35 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

That's because every collection of people, no matter the purpose, is guaranteed to have a few narcissists, even RPGs.  There will always be people who join your group, not out of actual interest in the subject matter, but out of a desire to use your group for their own purposes.  This is why the most "equitable" approach to gaming is to surround yourself with people who are primarily interested in the game.

You could see this happen first in both the comics and video gaming hobbies.  People who weren't interested or knowledgeable about those hobbies whined about "gatekeeping" when the established members of those fandoms questioned those newcomers about their interests.  It became almost taboo to ask a newcomer what games they played or what comics they liked, as that was "demanding proof" that the person was a fan of the hobby, and the ultimate sin of gatekeeping.  Of course, once the narcissists got entrenched in the hobbies, they immediately began gatekeeping the actual fans ("gamers are over", "comics aren't for you", etc.) to consolidate their power and influence.

So the lesson from all of this is simple: gatekeep the hell out of your hobby.  Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics, but based on the newcomers' desire to engage with the hobby as is.  Anyone who comes in with the stated objective of "improving" your hobby is only there to destroy it.  Period.  No exceptions.

That's hard for RPG nerds.  We want to grow the hobby.  We want other people to enjoy it the way we do.  Many RPG nerds use them for social interaction and friend-building, or have difficulties with social networking that RPGs help to reduce.  So exclusionary policies are not easy or instinctive to them, having been the victims of social exclusion themselves.  It's one of the reasons RPGs have always been one of the most open hobbies, regardless of what the woke say.  But it can't afford to be blindly accepting now.  The narcissists will only use that to destroy it.

"When I am weak, I beg you for freedom, because that is according to your principles.  When I am strong, i take away your freedom, because that is according to my principles." -- Every narcissist looking to destroy your hobby...

Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics,
That's for me to decide of course ;-)

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Yeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

It's something I'm countering in my own urban fantasy efforts by including Christian beliefs and characters. While my setting is agnostic/deist in nature (mostly because it gives me a lot of freedom and scares away the fewest customers), many characters will certainly have a Christian upbringing and understand the world through that lens. There are Christian vampires, Christian werewolves, angels that fit the Christian stereotype, fallen angels/demons who believe they were created by God, etc. Since Christianity is hardly a homogenous religion, there's plenty of diversity within that. Some monsters might think they're cursed but can be saved by doing good deeds and fighting evil, others believe they're recruits in a war against darkness and apathy, some believe that monsters were created by God to tempt and punish sinners and to reward and steer the faithful, some are Satanists who think they exist to despoil Creation, some believe God is a flawed creator who must be convinced of humanity's failings, and some believe God is an evil demiurge who must be overthrown for the good of all. All of these beliefs will be presented and respected.

Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 13, 2022, 10:47:56 AMYeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

The WW community was pretty strange in general.  I haven't played it since the reboot in the 2000s, but I remember the WW-d10 system being crunchy as hell, yet they treated it as a narrative gaming system.

Additionally, the original V:tM books read like "this is a game about playing a monster; a metaphor for the struggle between the rational good and base animalistic natures of the human condition; you will inevitably 'lose' and discover the moral lesson."  But the WW community embraced it as some sort of celebration of degeneracy (rather than the cautionary metaphor that I believe the genre originally intended), and the followup products played to this customer base (which is understandable I guess, although disappointing).

My conclusion ended up being: V:tM attracted the idiocracy, who then chased off the people who didn't want to use it as a vehicle to embrace degeneracy.

It was pretty much a shit-fest even back then, so I can't imagine how hilarious it must be now.  Lol.

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Quote from: Lee on September 13, 2022, 11:52:46 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 13, 2022, 10:47:56 AMYeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

The WW community was pretty strange in general.  I haven't played it since the reboot in the 2000s, but I remember the WW-d10 system being crunchy as hell, yet they treated it as a narrative gaming system.

Additionally, the original V:tM books read like "this is a game about playing a monster; a metaphor for the struggle between the rational good and base animalistic natures of the human condition; you will inevitably 'lose' and discover the moral lesson."  But the WW community embraced it as some sort of celebration of degeneracy (rather than the cautionary metaphor that I believe the genre originally intended), and the followup products played to this customer base (which is understandable I guess, although disappointing).

My conclusion ended up being: V:tM attracted the idiocracy, who then chased off the people who didn't want to use it as a vehicle to embrace degeneracy.

It was pretty much a shit-fest even back then, so I can't imagine how hilarious it must be now.  Lol.

Yeah. I remember reading on one of the public PBP boards people writing stuff like a vampire dominatrix walking her werewolf sub on a leash in front of everyone else or a cannibal vampire serial killer sadistically mutilating and disemboweling an innocent woman alive. For comparison, Critical Role (or whoever) recently did some officially sponsored campaigns where their vampires are genuinely nice people who never do bad or challenging things ever (this is apparently how all zoomers play the game). Neither extreme sounds interesting to me.

I was introduced through the 2000s reboot and liked it over the older setting (which WW fans still give me grief for if I ever feel stupid enough to mention it) but I left in the early 2010s when it became clear to me that WW had no idea what they were doing besides catering to the nostalgia of a fanbase that also had no idea what they wanted. I Started studying other urban fantasy games (mostly OOP, because of course) with the goal of making my own. I Got frustrated with how apathetic and insular tabletop fandom in that area is, so I decided to go into prose writing and crpgs because those are actually growth sectors. There's been basically no successful contemporary-set urban fantasy crpg since Troika's Bloodlines bombed in 2004, so the genre space is completely untapped.

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 05:04:57 AM

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.

You think all white people worshiped Odin???

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 05:04:57 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.
Will do. Thanks!

I wonder why this cunt is defending the racist cunt Varg Vikernes...

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 09:53:17 AM
Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics,
That's for me to decide of course ;-)

Wonder why a racist cunt is defending another racist cunt...

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2022, 01:10:13 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.

Sure man :)

Quote from: Godsmonkey on September 13, 2022, 12:20:40 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 02:27:41 PM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on September 13, 2022, 12:20:40 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Good to know :>

Some of my internet friends tried to get me to use guilded back when I decided to get my youtube community off of discord.  I looked at it and decided that I didn't want to lock myself into another walled garden.

That's not a criticism per se; I'm not trying to say that guilded is crap or anything, just that it's proprietary like Discord, and if the people that own it (or if it changes hands and the next owners) decide to go full-Maoist, then you're sunk again.

I decided instead to run my own Matrix (https://matrix.org/) homeserver.  Matrix is "sort of" like Discord, but different, but serves the same purpose.  It is a federated service, meaning that anyone who wants to can run their own homeserver on their own server hardware, but still join and participate in channels and spaces hosted on other homeservers.  There is also a more-or-less "official" Matrix homeserver that most people use, but I decided to run my own just because nerdrage.

It is similar in design to other federated social media platforms, like Mastodon and Peertube, but uses a different protocol.  This whole ecosystem of federated platforms is colloquially known as the "Fediverse" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S57uhCQBEk0 ).

Although the fediverse community (other than the centrist-type cypherpunks) seems to cluster around the far ends of the political spectrum, my experience has been largely positive.  Although I don't often do much outside of my own little community of Odysee/YouTube followers.  This "far-end" clustering is unsurprising though.  It's kind of like the wild west, and I think that once more "normies" ditch the walled gardens and embrace federated platforms, things will settle down.  But for that to happen, we have to get more normie-stuff going on over there.  So I'd encourage y'all to take a look at these platforms, and share here if you decide to get set up on any of them.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on September 13, 2022, 08:48:41 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 07:44:35 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

That's because every collection of people, no matter the purpose, is guaranteed to have a few narcissists, even RPGs.  There will always be people who join your group, not out of actual interest in the subject matter, but out of a desire to use your group for their own purposes.  This is why the most "equitable" approach to gaming is to surround yourself with people who are primarily interested in the game.

You could see this happen first in both the comics and video gaming hobbies.  People who weren't interested or knowledgeable about those hobbies whined about "gatekeeping" when the established members of those fandoms questioned those newcomers about their interests.  It became almost taboo to ask a newcomer what games they played or what comics they liked, as that was "demanding proof" that the person was a fan of the hobby, and the ultimate sin of gatekeeping.  Of course, once the narcissists got entrenched in the hobbies, they immediately began gatekeeping the actual fans ("gamers are over", "comics aren't for you", etc.) to consolidate their power and influence.

So the lesson from all of this is simple: gatekeep the hell out of your hobby.  Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics, but based on the newcomers' desire to engage with the hobby as is.  Anyone who comes in with the stated objective of "improving" your hobby is only there to destroy it.  Period.  No exceptions.

That's hard for RPG nerds.  We want to grow the hobby.  We want other people to enjoy it the way we do.  Many RPG nerds use them for social interaction and friend-building, or have difficulties with social networking that RPGs help to reduce.  So exclusionary policies are not easy or instinctive to them, having been the victims of social exclusion themselves.  It's one of the reasons RPGs have always been one of the most open hobbies, regardless of what the woke say.  But it can't afford to be blindly accepting now.  The narcissists will only use that to destroy it.

"When I am weak, I beg you for freedom, because that is according to your principles.  When I am strong, i take away your freedom, because that is according to my principles." -- Every narcissist looking to destroy your hobby...

"Gatekeep the hell out of your hobby" Words wise beyond measure  8)

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 02:27:41 PM

Quote from: Godsmonkey on September 13, 2022, 12:20:40 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Classic  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)

It will answer all your questions.

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 14, 2022, 03:01:59 PM
Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)

It will answer all your questions.

:')

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 02:24:32 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 13, 2022, 01:10:13 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 10:55:38 AM
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.

Sure man :)

Plagued, what did you mean by "EthNat"? We've had some open ethno-nationalists in this forum before. It's not grounds for banning, though a bunch of people will disagree with you.

I nearly bought Mörk Borg recently due to the pseudo black metal aesthetic, until I read that list detailing who not to support in TTRPGs.
Although, I bought Myfarog years ago (and will buy it again in the future) so that makes me fairly inconsistent in that approach.
Tangentially, I never understood people who were into black metal (enough to take it seriously) who preach about inclusiveness and tolerance. It is a music genre founded on extremity and exclusivity.

Anyway, as a rule of thumb, don't join public discords, as you've probably learned. I joined a discord with some guys from /tg/ a few years ago and they were cool, but that was my one good experience with it.

Quote from: Lidless_Eye on September 15, 2022, 04:30:37 PMTangentially, I never understood people who were into black metal (enough to take it seriously) who preach about inclusiveness and tolerance. It is a music genre founded on extremity and exclusivity.

I suspect that if the practitioners of wokeism cared about ideological consistency, they wouldn't practice wokeism.  :3

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:56:34 PM
They didn't appreciate my joke. BECAUSE WOKE IS NO JOKE! (lal)

On a more serious note tho. Why are those woke people so on edge? Why can't they take jokes? Why am I a bigot and a transphobe? Shit.

I've heard that young religions tend to be touchier than old ones. I'm sure you can think of a few like that. Woke is no different.

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 14, 2022, 03:01:59 PM
...you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)

It will answer all your questions.

Actually... I think it did

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 14, 2022, 03:01:59 PM
Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)

It will answer all your questions.

That's a good read

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 14, 2022, 03:01:59 PM
Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths (https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths)

It's an interesting read. I dislike using "sociopath" because it's a technical term with a clinical meaning, when I doubt there has been any real diagnosis.

Still, the general point is fine about creators, fans, and those in it for profit and/or power - what I'd call profiteers. Its point is that the distinction of creators and profiteers is their actual creations. The way to distinguish profiteers (what they call sociopaths) is that they don't create good gaming material.

It doesn't go into how to "be slightly evil" and avoid the problem of profiteers. From what it says, though, one can avoid profiteers by putting the focus on actual playable gaming material, and not on social media statements, author personality, or similar.

Dang, that was a really good article.  I agree with jhkim that we need more info on how to function as a "sociopath" without actually becoming one.  It's too easy to say we need to learn their methods, but if we start off by not being good at what they do, then how do we get there.  Without, in fact, becoming evil.

But this totally explains where the Satine Phoenix/Jamison Stone effect come from and why I, personally have been yearning to "get back to the start" with OSR inclinations, etc.

So the other set of articles it references is called "the Gervais principle." It talks about corporate America, but it's a great read regardless - and it also explains what it means by sociopath (in context, it means a person who is empty inside).

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ (https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/)

Give that one a read too, since it goes into more detail and gives more valuable information that can be applied to many life situations. I say this is a current Loser/burgeoning Sociopath/former Clueless.

Quote from: I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE on September 16, 2022, 04:44:59 PM
So the other set of articles it references is called "the Gervais principle." It talks about corporate America, but it's a great read regardless - and it also explains what it means by sociopath (in context, it means a person who is empty inside).

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ (https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/)

Give that one a read too, since it goes into more detail and gives more valuable information that can be applied to many life situations. I say this is a current Loser/burgeoning Sociopath/former Clueless.

Quote from: Gervais PrincipleA Sociopath with an idea recruits just enough Losers to kick off the cycle. As it grows it requires a Clueless layer to turn it into a controlled reaction rather than a runaway explosion. Eventually, as value hits diminishing returns, both the Sociopaths and Losers make their exits, and the Clueless start to dominate. Finally, the hollow brittle shell collapses on itself and anything of value is recycled by the sociopaths according to meta-firm logic.

I'm thinking:

1E: Gygax as Sociopath invents the New Great Thing, Lorraine (et.al.) as Clueless try to milk the Thing, 2E is the hollow shell, collapses, and then
3E: Ryan Dancy as Sociopath invents the 3PP Cash Cow, WOTC execs as Clueless milk the cow, 4E is the hollow shell, collapses, and then
5E: Mearls as Sociopath, with a Semi-weak idea of Backwards Compatibility 5E, WOTC execs see a Woke Cow they can milk, but the Wokers turn it into a hollow shell, until

One D&D.

Which you would think would be another new Sociopath (trying to monetize RPG as a Service) but the whole thing is going to sputter and crash.

RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of "fanatic"-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that's REALLY hard to scale up... ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base... but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David

Discord is cancer.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll on September 18, 2022, 05:30:17 PM

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

I joined the Mörk Borg Discord, unknowing of the fact it's infested with woke boys/girls/airplanes. I voice my opinion and get banned after being zerged on the main chat channel on the server but also in my pm inbox. I also got yelled at by Johan Nohr, the illustrator of the game, privately: If you don't adhere to the rules, be a bigot and show respect to people, than you're not welcome here!

What's happening with this world? Why are these people so toxic and "violent"? Don't get me wrong: I love the game. The design especially (since I am also into black metal - one of the genre's that inspired Nohr and Pelle to create the game), but also the game mechanics are brilliantly simple. BUT the community surrounding it - the attitude of the creators included - f*cked it up for me... I hate it.

Back to creating my own (NON WOKE) game..... Ciao forum :-)

David

Discord is cancer.

Perhaps, but if you only use it for voice chat on a private server with your personal game group it's a very benign and manageable cancer.

Quote from: Plagued on September 11, 2022, 01:39:11 PM

Quote from: Omega on September 10, 2022, 07:24:17 PM
Well before Discord they were working on the old text MMOs and e-groups like Yahhell before it completely erased every group. BGG and The-other-place, were spearheading the movement.

They infest anything and everything they can. Nothing is safe.

It's a real annoying, hard-to-get-rid-of foot fungus isn't it?

If only it were so easy...  :o

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 18, 2022, 08:50:23 AM
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of "fanatic"-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that's REALLY hard to scale up... ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base... but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM
supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes

What

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 18, 2022, 08:50:23 AM
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of "fanatic"-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that's REALLY hard to scale up... ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base... but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.

Dude, I will pay money for that kind of game.

Quote from: Plagued on September 10, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Anyone had bad experiences?

Just mention Trump and see what a community does.

Quote from: Lidless_Eye on September 19, 2022, 02:17:11 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM
supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes

What

The plot of an actual paranormal romance novel (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Kindling_Flames/NhbKDAAAQBAJ?hl=en) that I threw in as a joke. 99% of urban fantasy now is paranormal romance, but if you can get past the deluge of "the hero is the last of a dying race of vampires/werewolves/unicorns/leprechauns/dragons/angels/whatever and needs to seduce/impregnate the heroine" (which is like 99% of the genre now for god knows why) some of the stories are creative enough to inspire a useful adventure hook.

But even silly romance novel plots could probably provide entertaining side quests if nothing else. "Trevor the Vampire is leader of the Boy Band Clan. Unless Trevor finds his one true love and turns him/her into a vampire, then Trevor and his clan will spontaneously die in a few weeks on his hundredth vampire birthday. Does Trevor have any evidence this will actually happen? The vampire(s) in the party who know their vampire arcana says this is false superstition that maybe could happen rarely due to the placebo/nocebo effect, but you're not gonna tell Trevor otherwise when he says he'll pay you to find his one true love for him."

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2022, 03:27:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 18, 2022, 08:50:23 AM
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of "fanatic"-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that's REALLY hard to scale up... ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base... but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.

Dude, I will pay money for that kind of game.

Thanks for the vote of confidence

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 04:57:07 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on September 19, 2022, 03:27:01 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 19, 2022, 01:50:37 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 18, 2022, 08:50:23 AM
RPG as Service is a pipe dream by the Clueless with visions of WoW money in their eyes. No visionary sociopaths are in the mix because they all know actual video games would make massively more money with a much wider market than slow turn by turn system with worse graphics.

The advantage of traditional RPGs is the ability of "fanatic"-tier GMs to develop campaigns and improvise outcomes for a truly off-the-rails adventure experience for the mops and that's REALLY hard to scale up... ultimately resulting in trying to get mops to be GMs to grow the base... but mops only want to run adventure path and prebuilt campaigns and lack the improv skill that really makes tabletop unique.

Thus, failure is the only option.

I don't know if I'll ever release an RPG, but I try to deliberately cultivate that kind of creativity by including all sorts of weird (but genre appropriate) shit in my settings. For example, in secret world type urban fantasy you have a ton of leeway: You can have serial killers who murder people in their dreams, small scale zombie apocalypses, underground aztec snakepire cults, antichrist candidates that work for the Vatican to hunt monsters, reincarnated dragons from Atlantis, supermodel leprechauns that grant wishes, and more.

Dude, I will pay money for that kind of game.

Thanks for the vote of confidence

If you really believe that then you haven't watched the effect that Cyberpunk: Edgerunners has had yet.