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Author Topic: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities  (Read 4502 times)

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2022, 12:33:12 PM »
Yeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

The WW community was pretty strange in general.  I haven't played it since the reboot in the 2000s, but I remember the WW-d10 system being crunchy as hell, yet they treated it as a narrative gaming system.

Additionally, the original V:tM books read like "this is a game about playing a monster; a metaphor for the struggle between the rational good and base animalistic natures of the human condition; you will inevitably 'lose' and discover the moral lesson."  But the WW community embraced it as some sort of celebration of degeneracy (rather than the cautionary metaphor that I believe the genre originally intended), and the followup products played to this customer base (which is understandable I guess, although disappointing).

My conclusion ended up being: V:tM attracted the idiocracy, who then chased off the people who didn't want to use it as a vehicle to embrace degeneracy.

It was pretty much a shit-fest even back then, so I can't imagine how hilarious it must be now.  Lol.
Yeah. I remember reading on one of the public PBP boards people writing stuff like a vampire dominatrix walking her werewolf sub on a leash in front of everyone else or a cannibal vampire serial killer sadistically mutilating and disemboweling an innocent woman alive. For comparison, Critical Role (or whoever) recently did some officially sponsored campaigns where their vampires are genuinely nice people who never do bad or challenging things ever (this is apparently how all zoomers play the game). Neither extreme sounds interesting to me.

I was introduced through the 2000s reboot and liked it over the older setting (which WW fans still give me grief for if I ever feel stupid enough to mention it) but I left in the early 2010s when it became clear to me that WW had no idea what they were doing besides catering to the nostalgia of a fanbase that also had no idea what they wanted. I Started studying other urban fantasy games (mostly OOP, because of course) with the goal of making my own. I Got frustrated with how apathetic and insular tabletop fandom in that area is, so I decided to go into prose writing and crpgs because those are actually growth sectors. There’s been basically no successful contemporary-set urban fantasy crpg since Troika’s Bloodlines bombed in 2004, so the genre space is completely untapped.

I

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2022, 12:53:34 PM »

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.


You think all white people worshiped Odin???

GeekyBugle

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2022, 01:05:43 PM »
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.
Will do. Thanks!

I wonder why this cunt is defending the racist cunt Varg Vikernes...
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2022, 01:06:51 PM »
Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics,
That's for me to decide of course ;-)

Wonder why a racist cunt is defending another racist cunt...
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2022, 01:10:13 PM »
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Plagued

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2022, 02:24:32 PM »
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.

Sure man :)


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3catcircus

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2022, 02:27:41 PM »

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Godsmonkey

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2022, 02:42:00 PM »

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Good to know :>

Lee

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2022, 09:09:26 PM »
Some of my internet friends tried to get me to use guilded back when I decided to get my youtube community off of discord.  I looked at it and decided that I didn't want to lock myself into another walled garden.

That's not a criticism per se; I'm not trying to say that guilded is crap or anything, just that it's proprietary like Discord, and if the people that own it (or if it changes hands and the next owners) decide to go full-Maoist, then you're sunk again.

I decided instead to run my own Matrix (https://matrix.org/) homeserver.  Matrix is "sort of" like Discord, but different, but serves the same purpose.  It is a federated service, meaning that anyone who wants to can run their own homeserver on their own server hardware, but still join and participate in channels and spaces hosted on other homeservers.  There is also a more-or-less "official" Matrix homeserver that most people use, but I decided to run my own just because nerdrage.

It is similar in design to other federated social media platforms, like Mastodon and Peertube, but uses a different protocol.  This whole ecosystem of federated platforms is colloquially known as the "Fediverse" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S57uhCQBEk0 ).

Although the fediverse community (other than the centrist-type cypherpunks) seems to cluster around the far ends of the political spectrum, my experience has been largely positive.  Although I don't often do much outside of my own little community of Odysee/YouTube followers.  This "far-end" clustering is unsurprising though.  It's kind of like the wild west, and I think that once more "normies" ditch the walled gardens and embrace federated platforms, things will settle down.  But for that to happen, we have to get more normie-stuff going on over there.  So I'd encourage y'all to take a look at these platforms, and share here if you decide to get set up on any of them.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 09:15:52 PM by Lee »
http://www.ocfco.net/info.html <- My contact info and Odysee garbage.
http://www.dizzydragon.net <- My ol' D&D site.

Angry Goblin

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2022, 06:00:12 AM »
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

That's because every collection of people, no matter the purpose, is guaranteed to have a few narcissists, even RPGs.  There will always be people who join your group, not out of actual interest in the subject matter, but out of a desire to use your group for their own purposes.  This is why the most "equitable" approach to gaming is to surround yourself with people who are primarily interested in the game.

You could see this happen first in both the comics and video gaming hobbies.  People who weren't interested or knowledgeable about those hobbies whined about "gatekeeping" when the established members of those fandoms questioned those newcomers about their interests.  It became almost taboo to ask a newcomer what games they played or what comics they liked, as that was "demanding proof" that the person was a fan of the hobby, and the ultimate sin of gatekeeping.  Of course, once the narcissists got entrenched in the hobbies, they immediately began gatekeeping the actual fans ("gamers are over", "comics aren't for you", etc.) to consolidate their power and influence.

So the lesson from all of this is simple: gatekeep the hell out of your hobby.  Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics, but based on the newcomers' desire to engage with the hobby as is.  Anyone who comes in with the stated objective of "improving" your hobby is only there to destroy it.  Period.  No exceptions.

That's hard for RPG nerds.  We want to grow the hobby.  We want other people to enjoy it the way we do.  Many RPG nerds use them for social interaction and friend-building, or have difficulties with social networking that RPGs help to reduce.  So exclusionary policies are not easy or instinctive to them, having been the victims of social exclusion themselves.  It's one of the reasons RPGs have always been one of the most open hobbies, regardless of what the woke say.  But it can't afford to be blindly accepting now.  The narcissists will only use that to destroy it.

"When I am weak, I beg you for freedom, because that is according to your principles.  When I am strong, i take away your freedom, because that is according to my principles." -- Every narcissist looking to destroy your hobby...

"Gatekeep the hell out of your hobby" Words wise beyond measure  8)

Angry Goblin

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2022, 06:04:56 AM »

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/

Just be careful when you go there. I searched for dungeons & and before it got to the end of the word dungeon, it populated multiple responses, including "sex dungeons" - unless that's your thing...

Classic  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE
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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2022, 03:01:59 PM »
Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

It will answer all your questions.

Plagued

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2022, 03:16:03 PM »
Nice RPG posts, you fedora-wearing sad sack of meat.


Anyway, back on the topics of toxic TTRPG communities, you should give this a read: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

It will answer all your questions.

:')


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jhkim

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2022, 05:43:26 PM »
Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Who wants to bet that means Ethno-Nationalist?

You're a racist cunt, like your idol Varg Vikernes.

If you think you're welcome here because we opposse the OTHER racist cunts (SJWs) you're sorely mistaken.

Sure man :)

Plagued, what did you mean by "EthNat"? We've had some open ethno-nationalists in this forum before. It's not grounds for banning, though a bunch of people will disagree with you.

Lidless_Eye

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Re: Bad experiences with certain ttrpg communities
« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2022, 04:30:37 PM »
I nearly bought Mörk Borg recently due to the pseudo black metal aesthetic, until I read that list detailing who not to support in TTRPGs.
Although, I bought Myfarog years ago (and will buy it again in the future) so that makes me fairly inconsistent in that approach.
Tangentially, I never understood people who were into black metal (enough to take it seriously) who preach about inclusiveness and tolerance. It is a music genre founded on extremity and exclusivity.

Anyway, as a rule of thumb, don't join public discords, as you've probably learned. I joined a discord with some guys from /tg/ a few years ago and they were cool, but that was my one good experience with it.