Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Guilded.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 11, 2022, 07:11:25 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Certain facebook groups?

Thanks. Allow me to rephrase. Is there a better place for doing the same thing that is not Facebook?

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 08:15:37 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on September 11, 2022, 07:11:25 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Certain facebook groups?

Thanks. Allow me to rephrase. Is there a better place for doing the same thing that is not Facebook?

Hm... Fair point. I'm not a big fan of FB but I have to use it to keep in touch with certain clients and jobs, etc.

I don't really know, sadly tbh. I hope there are!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 11, 2022, 07:41:11 PM

Quote from: rytrasmi on September 11, 2022, 07:10:41 PM

Quote from: THE_Leopold on September 10, 2022, 01:38:40 PM
Friends don't let friends get on discord. That's your first mistake.

Is there a better place for doing the same thing?

Guilded.

Matrix.

The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

...their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity...
That culture is defined by Odinism, which has been erased by christianity.

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.
Will do. Thanks!

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 07:44:35 AM

Quote from: 3catcircus on September 13, 2022, 07:39:11 AM

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Considering the fact that the same type who were emo/goth cunts involved in WW are the same type that are woke antifa-loving SJWs who infest TBP, Discord, etc., the only solution really is to make your own community and vociferously defend it from their infestation.

If you are hanging out in TTRPG communities that are toxic, it had better be for a good enough reason, otherwise it just becomes self-flagellation.  If there is good *content* such as free adventures or house rules, then it makes sense to just lurk and steal. If the reason is for playing, ya gotta go somewhere else.

Yep, you nailed it with the "emo/goth cunts". They were always the nastiest people even before it became all about identity politics and radical ideology. The sickness was there and I could smell it even when they were just being edgy about "killing DnDs sacred cows". Seems so innocent now, in relation to the shitshow that has taken over society.

That's because every collection of people, no matter the purpose, is guaranteed to have a few narcissists, even RPGs.  There will always be people who join your group, not out of actual interest in the subject matter, but out of a desire to use your group for their own purposes.  This is why the most "equitable" approach to gaming is to surround yourself with people who are primarily interested in the game.

You could see this happen first in both the comics and video gaming hobbies.  People who weren't interested or knowledgeable about those hobbies whined about "gatekeeping" when the established members of those fandoms questioned those newcomers about their interests.  It became almost taboo to ask a newcomer what games they played or what comics they liked, as that was "demanding proof" that the person was a fan of the hobby, and the ultimate sin of gatekeeping.  Of course, once the narcissists got entrenched in the hobbies, they immediately began gatekeeping the actual fans ("gamers are over", "comics aren't for you", etc.) to consolidate their power and influence.

So the lesson from all of this is simple: gatekeep the hell out of your hobby.  Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics, but based on the newcomers' desire to engage with the hobby as is.  Anyone who comes in with the stated objective of "improving" your hobby is only there to destroy it.  Period.  No exceptions.

That's hard for RPG nerds.  We want to grow the hobby.  We want other people to enjoy it the way we do.  Many RPG nerds use them for social interaction and friend-building, or have difficulties with social networking that RPGs help to reduce.  So exclusionary policies are not easy or instinctive to them, having been the victims of social exclusion themselves.  It's one of the reasons RPGs have always been one of the most open hobbies, regardless of what the woke say.  But it can't afford to be blindly accepting now.  The narcissists will only use that to destroy it.

"When I am weak, I beg you for freedom, because that is according to your principles.  When I am strong, i take away your freedom, because that is according to my principles." -- Every narcissist looking to destroy your hobby...

Not on extraneous matters, like race or sex or politics,
That's for me to decide of course ;-)

Quote from: TheShadow on September 13, 2022, 04:02:15 AM
The toxic attitude in geekdom was there before it latched on to modern identity and sexual politics. It was there in the White Wolf community, and it was there in the D&D 4e community. It was hard to put a finger on, but it was there (see my sig).

I had an experience in the early 2000s with a WW forum where I must have said something vaguely friendly or positive towards Christianity (I was a practicing though certainly not proselytizing Christian at the time) and some dude PM'd me absolutely frothing at the mouth and trying to get me to defend and explain Christian beliefs which I had not brought up and had no desire to discuss. Then he slandered me and attempted to turn the forum against me. This is the kind of sick psychology that became obsessed with gender ideology a decade later. They hate their parents, their ancestral culture as represented by Christianity, for example, and seek to destroy and exclude. It's the same mentality that led to the worst aspects of the French and Russian revolutions. A childish, satanic rage (I say that now as a non-theist, as it's the psychological archetype that I refer to).

Do not engage. Exclude them, make your own spaces.

Yeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

It's something I'm countering in my own urban fantasy efforts by including Christian beliefs and characters. While my setting is agnostic/deist in nature (mostly because it gives me a lot of freedom and scares away the fewest customers), many characters will certainly have a Christian upbringing and understand the world through that lens. There are Christian vampires, Christian werewolves, angels that fit the Christian stereotype, fallen angels/demons who believe they were created by God, etc. Since Christianity is hardly a homogenous religion, there's plenty of diversity within that. Some monsters might think they're cursed but can be saved by doing good deeds and fighting evil, others believe they're recruits in a war against darkness and apathy, some believe that monsters were created by God to tempt and punish sinners and to reward and steer the faithful, some are Satanists who think they exist to despoil Creation, some believe God is a flawed creator who must be convinced of humanity's failings, and some believe God is an evil demiurge who must be overthrown for the good of all. All of these beliefs will be presented and respected.

Wait. Why are there two camps? It's either conservative, pro-life, anti woke, christian OR progressive, "liberal", woke, atheist.
I am an atheist. Pro-choice. Anti woke. Neither conservative nor progressive. (EthNat)

Anyways.

Any tips on alternatives for Discord?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on September 13, 2022, 10:47:56 AMYeah, I encountered that too and I don't understand it. The backstory of the WW games, or at least some of them, is based in Christian beliefs and apocrypha. So I'm surprised by how vociferously these fans despise that whole religion and the people who practice it. Actually no, doublethink seems to be commonplace in these circles.

The WW community was pretty strange in general.  I haven't played it since the reboot in the 2000s, but I remember the WW-d10 system being crunchy as hell, yet they treated it as a narrative gaming system.

Additionally, the original V:tM books read like "this is a game about playing a monster; a metaphor for the struggle between the rational good and base animalistic natures of the human condition; you will inevitably 'lose' and discover the moral lesson."  But the WW community embraced it as some sort of celebration of degeneracy (rather than the cautionary metaphor that I believe the genre originally intended), and the followup products played to this customer base (which is understandable I guess, although disappointing).

My conclusion ended up being: V:tM attracted the idiocracy, who then chased off the people who didn't want to use it as a vehicle to embrace degeneracy.

It was pretty much a shit-fest even back then, so I can't imagine how hilarious it must be now.  Lol.

Quote from: Plagued on September 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM

Where? Is there a healthy alternative to Discord?

It was mentioned already, but here's a link:

https://www.guilded.gg/