Quote from: I run with scissors;584608Price you pay if you want to play.

That's not an answer, just evasive jibberish

Quote from: Fiasco;584611Does having multiple OSR rules hacks really split the fan base that much? For starters, despite the press and recognition it gets, at best these iterations move a few thousand units. That is peanuts compared to the big players in D&D. I wouldn't be surprised if the 1E re-release sold more copies than the entire product of the OSR for that year. That's not even to speak of Paizo or even the worst selling dross from 4E.

I think it does have an effect.  You already see complaints on the the more dedicated old-school boards about a level of confusion as to what all the rulesets are about.

It's not bad for existing lifestyle-RPGers, per se.  I think it prevents a certain critical mass that would catch attention outside the inner workings of the hobby and make the efforts visible to those who played the games in the past but don't currently and think they are dead systems.

The other consideration is that if it is nothing but positive for old school games, why 3E didn't really go the same route.  Pathfinder enjoys the benefits of having such a critical mass, and if people who enjoyed 3E-style could theoretically decide such matters by vote, I don't think they would want a situation where there were dozens of 3E knockoffs each having a fraction of the market.  They get the mix-and-match effect from supps while enjoying the benefits of a dominant ruleset.  It is curious why old-school games have gone 180 away from that.

And no, I am not delusional to think that if there weren't all the current rulesets that old school games would move a hundred thousand units.  Just that whatever that potential maximum is, I doubt the current approach is a path to that.

Has anyone used teeth whitening tape with some success? My teeth are kinda yellow and I think that's why I have undeserved reputation as a sort of jovial villain. I figure you americans should know about white teeth and this tape is quite pricey.

http://www.ehow.com/video_4399722_crest-whitening-strips-work.html

I wouldn't really call Draco Malfoy "jovial".

I listened to some Draco Malfoy on audio and boy is he some kind of snobbish excrescence. My speaking voice is more like Morgan Freeman's, I am a man of the people and I will fight the elite, but I admit to having Malfoy's teeth.

...Potter!

Quote from: _kent_;584620Has anyone used teeth whitening tape with some success? My teeth are kinda yellow and I think that's why I have undeserved reputation as a sort of jovial villain. I figure you americans should know about white teeth and this tape is quite pricey.

http://www.ehow.com/video_4399722_crest-whitening-strips-work.html

This is the second time you are posting pure spam on the board, including a spam link. I warned you once about the consequences of spam on the board. This time is obviously voluntary. I warn you a second time: don't do that again, or I'll consider you a spammer with an intent on disrupting conversation on the site.

Quote from: EOTB;584618The other consideration is that if it is nothing but positive for old school games, why 3E didn't really go the same route.  Pathfinder enjoys the benefits of having such a critical mass, and if people who enjoyed 3E-style could theoretically decide such matters by vote, I don't think they would want a situation where there were dozens of 3E knockoffs each having a fraction of the market.  They get the mix-and-match effect from supps while enjoying the benefits of a dominant ruleset.  It is curious why old-school games have gone 180 away from that.

I think there are a number of reasons. Here are a few:

1) Old school play has always been about "do-it-yourself". Many long time "old school" players have wanted to publish their version of D&D since the 1970s or 1980s.

2) Publishing supplements rather than full games makes great sense if the core rules you'd need to publish just to make your changes are 400-500 pages. If the entire set of rules including monsters and treasure and your changes/additions can fit in 100-200 pages, there is less reason not to just publish the whole game -- especially as a free PDF. With a free PDF there is literally no cost to having everything in one book so peopple do not have to flip between the changes in your supplement and the original rulebook.

3) There does not seem to be the respect for "the RAW" among old school players that there seems to be among 3e players, so there is less objection from players to entire new sets of rules.

Quote from: Benoist;584629This is the second time you are posting pure spam on the board, including a spam link. I warned you once about the consequences of spam on the board. This time is obviously voluntary. I warn you a second time: don't do that again, or I'll consider you a spammer with an intent on disrupting conversation on the site.

You regularly talk boring shit which I consider spam so Im going to point your spam out to you whenever i see it from now on.

...Potter!!!!

Quote from: Fiasco;584611I also have LotFP and DCC in Hardcopy and even a PDF of ACKS. I have run LotFP for over a year (with a couple of things from ACKS) and next up a co DM will be running SWN. I will definitely run DCC in the future. Everything is so cross compatible why not mix and match?

I think mixing and match the TSR D&D rule sets and they ever-growing family of variants is a fine thing.  I also think a "free market" in RPGs is the best way to approach a market in RPGs, so I support the idea that if someone wants to create and release a clone or a variant, they have every right to do so.

However, from my point of view, I'm not terribly interested in acquiring more clones of the basically the same system, reading them, grokking what they've changed or added, and then figuring out if and how I want to use that in my D&D game.  I'm not saying they shouldn't have released a "complete system," if that's what they wanted to do.  I'm not saying it's bad for the D&D hobby, or bad for the market.  

All I'm saying is that I'd be more likely to acquire and use their variations and new stuff if it were released as a supplement.  And note that doesn't mean *only* as a supplement, necessarily.  

An example of what I mean (although not a D&D clone/variant) is the Mythic game system.  It's released as a complete game with its own system.  But the author/publisher also released a separate version of just the "Mythic GM Emulator" without the complete game system, as well.  I think that's a cool way do it.  I was curious and bought the Mythic GM Emulator, because it was set up as a plug-in supplement for the game I'm already playing.  If it was only available as part of the complete Mythic RPG System, I doubt the author ever would have made a sale, from me.

I'd encourage any clone creators to consider releasing their variations as supplements, as well as bundled into their complete games.  I think it's likely to be good for them, as well as good for guys like me.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;584635I'd encourage any clone creators to consider releasing their variations as supplements, as well as bundled into their complete games.  I think it's likely to be good for them, as well as good for guys like me.

Is it possible to release a supplement without creating a clone and yet avoid legal problems? If for example someone independently created a magic system and classes which could be used with AD&D, OD&D, and recent clones how do you pitch it in the market?

Could you for example turn your website into a 50 page pdf and sell it?

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;584635I'd encourage any clone creators to consider releasing their variations as supplements, as well as bundled into their complete games.  I think it's likely to be good for them, as well as good for guys like me.

That is a very valid point and there have been some excellent supplements produced such as An Echo Resounding which achieves many of the same domain management goals as ACKS but functions as an add on to LL (and thus B/X).

On the other hand Sine Nomine also produced the full rules (with built in default campaign) for Stars Without Number) and I would argue this is a significant enough departure to warrant a complete rules re-write.

There are certainly no legal requirements for producing complete rules sets over supplements.

Quote from: TristramEvans;584615That's not an answer, just evasive jibberish

Not really.   I had the money. I felt like spending said money. I'm in it now to the end. After all 2013 is not tat ar away.

IRWS

Quote from: _kent_;584637Is it possible to release a supplement without creating a clone and yet avoid legal problems? If for example someone independently created a magic system and classes which could be used with AD&D, OD&D, and recent clones how do you pitch it in the market?

This is an example of what you speak of:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/104202/A-Curious-Volume-of-Forgotten-Lore

No OGL to speak of. Explicit mention of usability with AD&D, OSRIC, and Labyrinth Lord on the cover.

(There are modules that take a similar approach.)