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At what point, do you prefer the mortal pc power curve to top out, level wise?

Started by Razor 007, February 22, 2019, 10:22:56 AM

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Razor 007

#30
March 12, 2019, 11:47:38 PM Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 05:58:20 PM by Razor 007
Quote from: RPGPundit;1078794Well, in my OSR campaigns, typically I like worlds where a 9th level character is extremely powerful, and the most powerful characters in the world are maybe 14-16th.


With the D&D 5E power scale in mind; at 5th Level, the Fighter gets his 2nd Attack per Round.  I want the Fighter to be able to get multiple attacks.  Arcane spellcasters will be doing all sorts of stuff well before then.

In White Box FMAG, the Fighter gets one attack per Level; against very low level foes.  He doesn't have to wait until 5th Level to start having fun.

I am searching for my preferred mix.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Razor 007

#32
March 13, 2019, 05:42:16 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1078895Fighter gets 2nd at 5th and 3rd at 11th in 5e.


Correct.  My bad.  As a politician might say; I "misspoke".  Haha!!!
I need you to roll a perception check.....

S'mon

#33
March 14, 2019, 05:18:43 AM
Quote from: Razor 007;1078915Correct.  My bad.  As a politician might say; I "misspoke".  Haha!!!

5e actually does a really good job of keeping PCs on the same power curve, as long as they are having the recommended 6-8 combat encounters per long rest. I almost never saw 6-8 fights in a single day, so I went over to 1 week long rest and now it all works perfectly. :) A Fighter-5 with ca 3 short rests per long rest is very comparable to a fireball-slinging Wizard-5. A Fighter-11 with 3 attacks (6 on Action Surge) compares nicely to a Wizard-11 getting his first level 6 spells.

RPGPundit

#34
March 18, 2019, 05:15:46 AM
Quote from: Razor 007;1078819With the D&D 5E power scale in mind; at 5th Level, the Fighter gets his 2nd Attack per Round.  I want the Fighter to be able to get multiple attacks.  Arcane spellcasters will be doing all sorts of stuff well before then.

In White Box FMAG, the Fighter gets one attack per Level; against very low level foes.  He doesn't have to wait until 5th Level to start having fun.

I am searching for my preferred mix.

Have you seen Lion & Dragon, and how it does advancement?
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Razor 007

#35
March 18, 2019, 02:38:25 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1079600Have you seen Lion & Dragon, and how it does advancement?


I own a copy.  It's been a little while since I read through it.  I'll take another look at it after work.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

OmSwaOperations

#36
March 20, 2019, 11:09:51 AM
Honestly I think I've most enjoyed the power level of PCs from between 5th to 10th level. After that the gap between *the average creature the PCs can realistically be expected to face* and *the kind of creatures the PCs need to face a challenge* is likely to become far too large.

Unless my campaign entirely revolves around combating extra-dimensional horrors (which, in fairness, they have done a few times), having the PCs be able to mow down battalions of soldiers is not conducive to a healthily wary attitude to combat, planning, bothering to make allies and negotiate with enemies, and so on - all of which are elements of the game I really enjoy.

S'mon

#37
March 20, 2019, 11:55:08 AM
Quote from: OmSwaOperations;1079965Unless my campaign entirely revolves around combating extra-dimensional horrors (which, in fairness, they have done a few times), having the PCs be able to mow down battalions of soldiers is not conducive to a healthily wary attitude to combat, planning, bothering to make allies and negotiate with enemies, and so on - all of which are elements of the game I really enjoy.

However 5e D&D gives us Bounded Accuracy and powerful mooks such as the CR 3 Veteran - I kerbstomped a teen-level PC group with a score of Veterans. I see more complaints on the Internet that 5e mooks are too powerful vs high level PCs and monsters.

SHARK

#38
March 20, 2019, 10:16:42 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1079971However 5e D&D gives us Bounded Accuracy and powerful mooks such as the CR 3 Veteran - I kerbstomped a teen-level PC group with a score of Veterans. I see more complaints on the Internet that 5e mooks are too powerful vs high level PCs and monsters.

Greetings!

S'mon, my friend, can you search through your notes and such, and provide a detailed account of that action? I think it is always a beautiful thing when otherwise *mundane* mortal enemies provide the smug player-characters with a good ass-kicking, to keep them humble. I would love to hear about how all of that went down, brother! I also think it can serve as a good example and inspiration for other DM's here on our site with the potentials involved, even for what a person would think are especially formidable player characters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Razor 007

#39
March 20, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
Quote from: SHARK;1080027Greetings!

S'mon, my friend, can you search through your notes and such, and provide a detailed account of that action? I think it is always a beautiful thing when otherwise *mundane* mortal enemies provide the smug player-characters with a good ass-kicking, to keep them humble. I would love to hear about how all of that went down, brother! I also think it can serve as a good example and inspiration for other DM's here on our site with the potentials involved, even for what a person would think are especially formidable player characters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


I imagine one key thing, is to avoid allowing all or many of those mundane foes to be within range of area of effect spells.  10 Orcs are no big deal, if a single casting of a 3rd level area of effect spell can center on the group and take them all out.  Spread those foes out.  Have them attack from multiple directions at once.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

Razor 007

#40
March 20, 2019, 11:26:49 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1079600Have you seen Lion & Dragon, and how it does advancement?



It appears to me, that the PCs would advance in level about every third gaming session; so about 30 gaming sessions to advance from level 0, to level 10.  Of course, I should say "if" they survive that long.

I see that PC advancement is not tied directly to treasure accumulation.
I need you to roll a perception check.....

S'mon

#41
March 21, 2019, 02:33:30 AM
Quote from: SHARK;1080027Greetings!

S'mon, my friend, can you search through your notes and such, and provide a detailed account of that action? I think it is always a beautiful thing when otherwise *mundane* mortal enemies provide the smug player-characters with a good ass-kicking, to keep them humble. I would love to hear about how all of that went down, brother! I also think it can serve as a good example and inspiration for other DM's here on our site with the potentials involved, even for what a person would think are especially formidable player characters.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It was an online game, I have the session log - http://smons.blogspot.com/2016/01/session-59-554446-fall-of-morthor-cof.html

S'mon

#42
March 21, 2019, 04:52:48 AM
Quote from: Razor 007;1080034I imagine one key thing, is to avoid allowing all or many of those mundane foes to be within range of area of effect spells.  10 Orcs are no big deal, if a single casting of a 3rd level area of effect spell can center on the group and take them all out.  Spread those foes out.  Have them attack from multiple directions at once.

Well, 58 hp Veterans are actually quite resistant to 8d6 Fireballs! And even a level 5 slot is only doing 10d6. To really make an impact you need to be doing around twice that, which typically requires some powergaming, such as a Fighter-Wizard with Action Surge casting 2 fireballs before the enemy can get into melee. In the referenced game there was no multiclassing or feats, and the PCs were mostly warrior types.
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