This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.

Author Topic: "As I get bigger, my jokes get funnier!" or "Advice for a 9 foot Ranger"  (Read 1022 times)

Enkhidu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • E
  • Posts: 121
Here's the skinny:

I'm part of a regular biweekly D&D game in which I play a ranger-esque PC who was recently the victim subject of a rather powerful magical effect. Well, to be fair, the whole party was blasted by a surge of staggering wild magic, but I'm not here to talk about those other schmoes. I'm here to talk about this - at the end of things, this PC awoke to find himself (and his worn, though not carried, equipment) one and a half times his normal height. As such, he's pretty much permanently enlarged.

Except the effect wasn't just a permanent magical enlargement, it was a change in the PC's basic makeup - this effect is now non-magical, and can't be undone with simply breaking an enchantment, dispelling, or even disjunction.

At this point you might be seeing my predicament. Nothing short of ogre or troll sized gear will fit (troll at this point, since he's been described as long and thin, like a 9 and a half foot Manute Bol). And weaponry? Fugedaboutit. Luckily (or unluckily as the case may be) we don't use the 3.5 weapon sizing rules, so we don't have to worry about that. We won't even talk about transportation or lodging.

What we will talk about is options. Or rather, I'm going to ask you for options. I've got two basic ideas - 1) work toward using Wish level magic to undo what's been done, or 2) "buy off" the size in the form of ECL/level adjustment and transition this size into a true size shift as per the MM, "growing into" the new size.

Anyway, what do you think?
 

Janos

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • J
  • Posts: 90
I'd go for a compromise using something akin to the mutilation feats out of BoVD/HoH.  Take a 5' increase to reach in exchange for the added cost of gear, or something along those lines.

Work toward magical correction, but don't pursue it too hard and play up your new state as a curse.  Look to giant sized PrCs to dabble in to take full advantage of your large ass.
 

Yig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Y
  • Posts: 136
What level are you?

Maybe you could get a wizzy to cast a permanent reduce person on you?

I'm playing a Large character and the only problem I've been having so far is when we get somehere with 5' wide corridors and I have to squeeze all the time.
 

Basara_549

  • Newbie
  • *
  • B
  • Posts: 49
    • http://www.users.kih.net/~sbundy/
Not sure what the 3E/3.5E equivalent would be for the 1E Wand of Size Alteration.

Rechargeable, uses the duration of the Enlarge or Diminish spells IIRC (it doesn't really say in the description just that it has a duration that expires), and one charge changes the size of the target and his equipment (no save if willing) 50%. One charge would put you at 4.5 feet for the duration, using 2 charges (one each way) would (after combining both effects) put you at about 6'9" (a little big, but still relatively human sized, instead of being a short elf or anorexic dwarf sized.

Would seem to me to be an easily made item in 3E/3.5E magic item rules, fairly cheap too.
 

Svartalf

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • S
  • Posts: 68
Forget the "rechargeable" bit... one of my pet peeves with 3E is that it looks like the only way to recharge a magic item is to remake it from scratch... of course, nowadays, when the want becomes empty, you got a nice wand you can reuse for manufacturing, but you still need to have the make wand (or for something with several functions, or spells above lvl 4, make rod or make staff) feat, proper spell(s) available, plus a lab, and lay full cost for making a new item in gold and XP ... it's a wonder that there are so many magic items around, since few adventurer mages are interested in item crafting (they just don't have the time and facilities to start with), and I'd expect more sedentary mages to cling onto their hard gotten XP like Scrooge Mc Duck onto his lucky penny... they don't get that much experience to start with, since the system is geared to defeating foes and foiling traps, and if they make too many items, not only they don't advance at all, but they actually risk losing levels...

Really strange system that seems geared to make every class equal to each other level for level, but encourages spell casters to lag behind by giving them lots of oportunities of losing XPs (and crummy fortitude saves, so they are more likely than many to lose levels definitively if they run afoul of the undead) ...
 

Enkhidu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • E
  • Posts: 121
Yig had asked about level - the party is average level 15 right now, just high enough to be dealing with limited wishes (which we established might not be enough to do it) but not quite hgh enough to treat this as an inconvenience. Plus, since we are nearing the endgame of the campign there might not be enough time for me to "buy off" the condition.

I'm beginning to believe I should bring the following comprimise to the DM: advancing from medium to large size, according to the MM, give the following benefits/penalties.

Str +8, Con +4, Dex -2, Natural Armor +3, Reach, -1 to AC, -1 to Attacks.

Now at present, I've got the following:

Str +2, Dex -2, Reach, -1 to AC, -1 to Attacks.

What I think I'll propose is taking levels in "Big" which break down like this:

Level 1: Str+2, Con+2, Natural Armor +1
Level 2: Str+2, Con+2, Natural Armor +1
Level 3: Str+4, Natural Armor +1

This will (to some extent) offset not getting BAB, hit dice, or skill points. But how does it stack up against, say, the level adjustment for an Ogre?
 

Yig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Y
  • Posts: 136
Ogres LA+HD=+6 ECL

Ogres As Characters

Quote
Ogre characters possess the following racial traits.

    * +10 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma.
    * Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
    * Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
    * An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet.
    * Darkvision out to 60 feet.
    * Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
    * Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot.
    * Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats.
    * Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An ogre is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.
    * +5 natural armor bonus.
    * Automatic Languages: Common, Giant. Bonus Languages: Dwarven, Orc, Goblin, Terran.
    * Favored Class: Barbarian.
    * Level adjustment +2.

I'm playing an half-ogre. The party is level 15, so I'm 13. The +2 LA is well worth it.

But in your case you got hit with a permanent Enlarge so you didn't really gain a size category like an advanced monster would.

So in exchange for taking those 3 levels you won't gain HD/HP, BAB, saves and skill points? You could always accept reduced bonuses and takes those levels as Giant.

Quote
A giant has the following features.

    * 8-sided Hit Dice.
    * Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
    * Good Fortitude saves.
    * Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.
 

Enkhidu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • E
  • Posts: 121
Hmmm.

I had originally pegged being "Big" to being very close to an Ogre, and it looks like I was fairly close to the mark. Since I would be concentrating on buying off the "adjustment" instead of the actual HD, I'll compare the Ogre's LA benefits against what would be mine in the long run:

If an Ogre gets an LA of +2 from this:

* +10 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma.
* Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
* An ogre’s base land speed is 40 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* +5 natural armor bonus.


Would it be fair/safe to assume that it stacks up well against this LA of +3?

* +8 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution.
* Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
* +3 natural armor bonus.

In other words, do the darkvision and the extra movement cancel out the Int and Cha penalties?

By the time I was finished, the PC would be a 15 HD character equivelent to a level 18 PC, and would look something like this:

S 22 (24 w/ bonus)
D 14
C 20
I 13
W 14
C 14 (16 w/ bonus)

HP: 173
BAB 14, Adjusted to hit +21 (melee), +15 (ranged)
AC: like that of the proverbial broad side of a barn

The real question, then, is would this extra size be worth the opportunity cost for the PC (which, up until this point, had been a even mix of melee and ranged relying on versatility in combat), or would a trio of extra warrior class levels be a better choice?
 

Yig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Y
  • Posts: 136
Do you have either Races of Destiny or Savage Species? If so, look at the half-ogre that is in there (the real LA is +2, not +1).

If not, I'll post the stats tonight.

Quote
The real question, then, is would this extra size be worth the opportunity cost for the PC (which, up until this point, had been a even mix of melee and ranged relying on versatility in combat), or would a trio of extra warrior class levels be a better choice?

If you're a melee goon being Large is great. I know I really enjoy it.

What feats do you have? When Large, one fun option is to be a tripping machine :)
 

Enkhidu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • E
  • Posts: 121
Quote from: Yig
Do you have either Races of Destiny or Savage Species? If so, look at the half-ogre that is in there (the real LA is +2, not +1).

If not, I'll post the stats tonight.

Post 'em, please. The Races books were never high on my list.
Quote from: Yig
If you're a melee goon being Large is great. I know I really enjoy it.

What feats do you have? When Large, one fun option is to be a tripping machine :)


Ah, feats. That's one of the big reasons I'm looking at this as closely as I am and wondering about opportunity cost. The PC is a mish-mash of classes (a spell-less ranger homebrew/rogue/homebrew PrC mix) who concentrated more on flexibility in combat than anything else. Truthfully, if I had to do it over again, I'd likely focus a bit more on one aspect or another instead of going the route I did. Here's the feat list:

Tracking (class bonus)
Improved Initiative (virtual class bonus)
Dodge (houserules to apply to everyone)
Mobility
Combat Reflexes
Spring Attack
Combat Expertise
Power Attack
Iron Will
Point Blank Shot
Bounding Assault
Leadership

The role he plays in the party is that of "backup." His PrC gives him some bard like abilities to influence his companions, and up until this recent change, he was the best archer of the group, so he was mainly a "fill in the gaps" combatant. He was also a bit of a lightning rod, serving to soak up attacks because he as so vocal, and because of reputation (he's the "leader" of the bunch).

You can see my predicament.
 

Yig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Y
  • Posts: 136
If you DM let you change on of your feat to Improved Trip (and if you use a tripping weapon, say a halberd) you'll be a lot more effective :)

Quote
Half-Ogre Racial Traits

* +6 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha
* Giant type
* Large: -1 to hit, -1 AC, reach 10'
* Base speed 30'
* Darkvision 60'
* +4 natural armor
* Automatic language: Giant and Common
* Favourite class: Barbarian
* LA +2

In my case, that LA +2 is well worth it. My char is barb/ft 11/2 and my first attack is at +29 when raging :)