But Marleycat, how do you really feel?

I enjoyed Mage: the Awakening far more than Ascension. It's the only nWoD game I could see myself running as a campaign.

Outside of Pendragon, I have not seen a RPG where I feel the "morality / ethical tension" was really baked into the system. That's always the domain of the individual GMs, but suggested by game fluff.

I ran Werewolf, but for me, I found the game devolved when we would focus on ethical issues of lycanthropy and the tribe, but for us the game picked up when we focused on the rage against the corruption. Maybe it was just us.

Quote from: Spinachcat;823650But Marleycat, how do you really feel?

I enjoyed Mage: the Awakening far more than Ascension. It's the only nWoD game I could see myself running as a campaign.

Outside of Pendragon, I have not seen a RPG where I feel the "morality / ethical tension" was really baked into the system. That's always the domain of the individual GMs, but suggested by game fluff.

I ran Werewolf, but for me, I found the game devolved when we would focus on ethical issues of lycanthropy and the tribe, but for us the game picked up when we focused on the rage against the corruption. Maybe it was just us.

Have you tried Werewolf the Foresaken?  Especially 2e? I'm not a huge Werewolf fan but Werewolf the Foresaken, especially 2e really nails the morality/ethical crisis via Harmony, Wolf Blooded and the fact that 8 billion walking Happy Meals full of essence are EVERYWHERE and so easy to kill and NOT actually that bad a hit against your nature to kill depending on your Harmony. ... (hint for you middle is good but extremes cause. ..issues) but balanced is hard doncha know especially in a world that rewards extremes.

Check out Vampire: The Undeath by Dark Phoenix publishing.


First in a new series of dark urban fantasy games.

Quote from: TristramEvans;823657Check out Vampire: The Undeath by Dark Phoenix publishing.


First in a new series of dark urban fantasy games.

I looked it up. Turns out it's a bad rip-off that claims to be original, which is quite a feat considering that plenty of people rip off World of Darkness while giving full credit (to the point of calling their homebrew Alternate World of Darkness or something). Jared Sorenson's Vampire (simplified LARP rules with the setting excised and a couple new disciplines added to simulate Dracula and Carmilla powers) was far better.

Quote from: TristramEvans;823657Check out Vampire: The Undeath by Dark Phoenix publishing.


First in a new series of dark urban fantasy games.

Now, that is just mean.  Someone may actually take you seriously!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823172Monsterhearts

If you are actually serious about wanting to try out Monsterhearts, and you have and are willing to use Skype(for voice) and Roll20(for the game table), send me a PM. I've been considering running a new game of MH for a while, and I'd like at least half of my players to be new blood(new to me, that is).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823376The nWoD was more a reimagining of cWoD that tried to remove the debris that had accumulated over the years in order to refocus on the core themes of the game, and to attract new players who would otherwise be intimated by the vast background of the cWoD: a "World of Darkness Lite" produced at the behest of the marketing department.

I actually like the vast background, because that's where I get my campaign ideas. It's usually based on past events or important historical time periods. The Symbiot Wars? How about the Symbiot Wars part 2 where my players are a bunch of mercenaries? And then I throw in all mercenary missions into one big campaign fighting their nemesis. It gives me an overarching goal to achieve.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823376The problem is that while the games may have the illusion of being more flexible, they're still limited by the built-in settings. You can't easily tweak the background, powers and so forth without cutting yourself off from large chunks of the books. Vampires are Ricean, werewolves are demon hunters, mages believe in the supernal realms, mummies come from Irem, and so on. A lot of concepts are left out.

I found that out myself. I don't like the covenants in vampire and that left me playing a setting without them which was very empty. It's neither flesh nor fish the nwod. Not really a fleshed out setting, not really a toolkit. Somewhere in between.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823376Not that the fiction in WoD books isn't sometimes good (and sometimes very bad), but often the fiction has nothing to do with the book it appears in.

I wasn't only talking about the fiction. I meant the entire books. Look at the first 10 pages of the hunter's  core book setting chapter. It's just hot air. I like more practical written books like unisystem, savage worlds or basic roleplaying better. It's more clear.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;823862I actually like the vast background, because that's where I get my campaign ideas. It's usually based on past events or important historical time periods. The Symbiot Wars? How about the Symbiot Wars part 2 where my players are a bunch of mercenaries? And then I throw in all mercenary missions into one big campaign fighting their nemesis. It gives me an overarching goal to achieve.

The thing about vast backgrounds is that they can all to easily overshadow the player characters and turn a campaign into "we watch the GMNPCs solve the plot." Such backgrounds can conversely be all but irrelevant to daily life for the player characters. Such backgrounds are best suited for globe-trotting campaigns where the player characters play a huge role in shaping world affairs rather than the personalized, down-to-earth stories that dominate the vast majority of fiction.

When I'm watching Charmed, I see a rather large disconnect between the heroes supposedly playing a big role in the cold war between good and evil versus the fact that in practice they live normal lives at their manor until the monster of the week arrives. I got the impression that the powers of good were lying about their importance while the big bad evil guy was just a third-rate demonic mob boss with an absurdly inflated opinion of himself.

While watching Buffy, on the other hand, I got the impression that Buffy was just one of many people across the world trying to save a world that was literally always doomed because it's a Lovecraftian cosmic horror story with urban fantasy elements. Buffy herself wasn't even that important, since the slayer was literally designed to be replaced. It was quite depressing.

I like Nightlife RPG for it's 1980s proto-WoD feel.

http://www.waynesbooks.com/nightlife.html

Quote from: Patrick;823755Now, that is just mean.  Someone may actually take you seriously!

Hee hee.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823864The thing about vast backgrounds is that they can all to easily overshadow the player characters and turn a campaign into "we watch the GMNPCs solve the plot." Such backgrounds can conversely be all but irrelevant to daily life for the player characters. Such backgrounds are best suited for globe-trotting campaigns where the player characters play a huge role in shaping world affairs rather than the personalized, down-to-earth stories that dominate the vast majority of fiction.

I think a lot of perzonalized stories are the way to go for the NWoD, but to me that always leads to a mystery of the week or monster of the week affair. It's just like Supernatural. It's all fairly standard stuff. That show becomes interesting when it's all about the war between angels and demons. That's the thing I am looking for. Something to tie all the different missions together.

You can do that in the NWoD, but it is often done on a local scale by the GM's own input. Something like this. It provides you with three different timeperiods (and the current timeperiod) and with a few major events. It just shapes the city not the world.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823864When I'm watching Charmed, I see a rather large disconnect between the heroes supposedly playing a big role in the cold war between good and evil versus the fact that in practice they live normal lives at their manor until the monster of the week arrives. I got the impression that the powers of good were lying about their importance while the big bad evil guy was just a third-rate demonic mob boss with an absurdly inflated opinion of himself.

A very lighthearted show. Not a chance the bad guys ever won. I actually think Charmed is about the same as Buffy/Angel.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;823864While watching Buffy, on the other hand, I got the impression that Buffy was just one of many people across the world trying to save a world that was literally always doomed because it's a Lovecraftian cosmic horror story with urban fantasy elements. Buffy herself wasn't even that important, since the slayer was literally designed to be replaced. It was quite depressing.

Buffy depressing? That show was campy as hell. A cheerleader beating up demon with ease. Huh?!? It was lighthearted in my mind.

Anyway, it's not about the outcome. If the outcome of a war is already set in stone (wether you always win or always lose) it's just lazy storywriting.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;823968I think a lot of perzonalized stories are the way to go for the NWoD, but to me that always leads to a mystery of the week or monster of the week affair. It's just like Supernatural. It's all fairly standard stuff. That show becomes interesting when it's all about the war between angels and demons. That's the thing I am looking for. Something to tie all the different missions together.

I found Supernatural got worse after the angel demon war took over the plot. The world is doomed, nobody notices, and the heroes are two brothers with huge personal issues.

A personalized story doesn't necessarily lead to a mystery of the week plot. Plenty of shows are arc-based instead. Even Game of Thrones is really about the struggles of petty selfish nobles as they drag the kingdoms into their personal feuds; admittedly that's a special case because most fictional characters don't have that sort of temporal power or are the least bit proactive about their goals.

Personalized stories work best if the PCs are proactive and the GM isn't forced to make up problems out of thin air for the PCs to react to.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824007I found Supernatural got worse after the angel demon war took over the plot. The world is doomed, nobody notices, and the heroes are two brothers with huge personal issues.

Same for me. When the stories were more 'street level' and personal... the search for their father and revenge on the yellow-eyed demon... and they kept an air of doom to the proceedings... the law or the monsters seemed sure to catch up to them eventually... I was all in.
Then everything seemed to get BIGGER and superheroic and fucking redundant. Dying and getting brought back and saving the world AGAIN!

QuoteYou can do that in the NWoD, but it is often done on a local scale by the GM's own input. Something like*this. It provides you with three different timeperiods (and the current timeperiod) and with a few major events. It just shapes the city not the world.

NWOD 2e (all gamelines) tends to be more world spanning/global level then 1e and Mage the Awakening 2e is purpose built to be a global level game unlike the first edition. Also it sounds like Dark Eras would be invaluable to you so my advice is to look into it hard when it comes out.

I thought so. I think it might have some global events in the history of each setting and it will have some GM's advice on different playstyles. But it is WW and I won't hold my breath for it.

Also it doesn't have to be global. It can be local instead as long as there is something happening. Like this for example.  This stuff always give me ideas to run. I could use it, or give it a spin or use the opposite idea. My players could try to fight the big bad or try to solve the problem, but they could also sandbox and be confronted with this indirectly.