Quote from: Marleycat;824199Tell that to just ONE faction that are natural teleporters and not just psi's but more, they make it possible to not have to have a bunch of bullshit unless that's their goal, or another faction that rules the basis of technology (they rule the elements) and can force the TRUTH from you while being skilled in making magic items. ...and so on.

See the thing for Mages the problem isn't if she can do it, but is it worth the risk/cost and who or what should know the actual score.

These are people that see behind the curtain 24/7 just by sitting there. For example the typical Obrimos (that elemental techno mage above) walks into a bar....she's a natural Force/Prime Mage and with a little blink she will know who and what is magic and probably supernatural to boot by no magic and just walking in the door.

Hint this path usually goes with one of THREE choices Mind/Body/Spirit, too bad you won't have a clue which until they decide to do something overt.

All of which is useless when trying to fill out paperwork.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824210All of which is useless when trying to fill out paperwork.

Au contaire...first of all, they're human so they can play by the rules anytime....except when they choose not to.

Your typical mage has multiple identities, most are even straight legal. Now add in someone who can scan a mind, make the odds go in their favor, hack electronics....with no magic as the world defines it. It's all just normal to anyone...mundane or supernatural.

Remember the question isn't "If it can be done" but...."What price are you willing to pay? "...especially given the fact it's far easier to make others pay that price then yourself. In MtAw it's all about REACH and the fact that there are many ways to skin a cat.

Quote from: Snowman0147;824180By wrong impressions do you mean that mistaking Filamena Young as a major contributor, or by saying Filamena Young was on the list of contributors?  

If the former you got the impression wrong because I thought it was equal credit spread out.  In that case I wish Anna Kreider the best of luck since I didn't hear her do any thing wrong.

If the later again you got the wrong impression because I seen her name on the list.



Thus I have a problem buying this pdf.  Most of those people probably had nothing to do with all the shit that was smeared on ZakS and his friends.  I would assume they are pretty good people, but the connection with Flim is cancerous to them.  I don't want to give her a single dime because she along with her husband make the hobby worst.

Then again I might be a hypocrite in this regard because I bought world of darkness books before.  Those were made by David Hill who is the husband of Flim and is just as bad as her.  Though I will say he is more intelligent about it because he knows when to shut up if things are going to bite him in the ass.

I have to ponder about this.

By wrong impressions, I mean that it has been some time since Filamena said something bad and wrong about Zak and/or his entourage but Anna Kreider (aka Wundergeek) has wriote a "lovely" hate piece about Zak last month. I have seen it pop at least two imes as a proof of Zak's terrible nature ...

So I was thinking maybe you have mistaken Young for Kreider but it does not seem so since you do not know who the latter is.

As for Hill, I am not sure that he knows when to shut his mouth but that is another story ...


And it also appears that I was wrong about Young's contribution. She is not credited as a minor writer but as a major writer. My mistake !

Quote from: yabaziou;824227Anna Kreider (aka Wundergeek)

Now I won't buy the book and take back the good luck I wish on her.  I honestly didn't know she is Wundergeek.  Now that I do I will make sure she doesn't get a dime from me.

Quote from: Snowman0147;824289Now I won't buy the book and take back the good luck I wish on her.  I honestly didn't know she is Wundergeek.  Now that I do I will make sure she doesn't get a dime from me.

That was the kinda of reaction I was expecting ! ^_^ Don' sweat it !

Honestly, if people are really interested in that product, I won't look down on them for buying. I'm not sure that she will gain royalties or things like that from it and even if she does if it will not be a big amount of money. And this will probably not prevent her from participating in smear campaigns. But I do wish people know to whom their money goes.

And Nightbane is really worth checking and can be found at a good price on the second hand market. It is 4 books of awesauce (there are 6 books in total but I am not familiar with the 2 last od them).

Quote from: jan paparazzi;824186Am I the only one here that honestly doesn't give a fuck about who wrote what about who. If the game is good I will buy it and if it isn't I won't.

It sounds to me like those people are all politically correct about racial issues, cultural differences and gender issues. So they should listen to George Carlin more often. He's my priest and I worship him.

Anyway all that policor mentality is really annoying in the real world. But I seriously don't give crap if that influences the rpg industry. Come on, all that pc bullshit is way more harmful in politics, media and academics.

There is a difference between not liking some one for their political beliefs and refusing to buy products from some one because that some tried to libel their way to remove innocent people out of the industry.  The former you have a disagreement with.  The later tried to use lies, rumor mongering, damage people's good names, and every other dirty tactic to get what they want.

What would you say are the essential elements of an urban fantasy game?

What gives these sorts of games their compelling nature, in my experience, is that various magical problems are metaphors or allegories for human nature. Codependency, puberty, dualism, id, anger, transsexuality, survival, and so on.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824189Isn't that the sort of thing that belongs in city books? Like, you look up the history of a city and keep a look out for things like urban legends and ghost stories and simply strange events. Then you posit a supernatural explanation for some but not all of them and decide which ones led to effects contemporary with the PCs.

Yes, but then ... ehh globally I guess. I think I just like plot as long as they don't expand on it. Something like Earthdawn's history is perfect for me. It explains the world as it is. And it is a nice setup for an exploration and investigation game, both above and below the surface. Hell, I guess I just wait for Dark Eras.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824454What would you say are the essential elements of an urban fantasy game?

What gives these sorts of games their compelling nature, in my experience, is that various magical problems are metaphors or allegories for human nature. Codependency, puberty, dualism, id, anger, transsexuality, survival, and so on.

Eh ... dark world, monsters are real, magic is real. Conspiracies and secret societies.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;824494Eh ... dark world, monsters are real, magic is real. Conspiracies and secret societies.

This. Not that I mind a bit of allegory. I just don't think it's necessary for a compelling story, urban fantasy or otherwise. Allegory can be compelling. Non-allegory can be compelling.

That said, I do realize that the various character types are meant to represent different types of people in Monsterhearts, both for better and for worse. The principles in the GM section are meant to make the world a broken, sometimes even scary place for people who are different. And even your "cool powers" are meant to cause more problems for you than they solve.

Personally, I do follow this to some extent, but definitely not to the extent that the author intended(or at least the extent that his writing makes it sound like he intended). At the very least, I try to follow the principle(and ask my players when I GM to do the same) that the Moves you take say something about your character. Like if someone takes the Ghost's move, "Creep," then they're likely the kind of character who's obsessive, perhaps even prone to jealousy, and willing to go to . . . well, creepy lengths to keep tabs on a person. That said, I tend to be pretty flexible about these things -- I just want to know that my players have put actual thought into the kind of people their characters are and aren't just taking Moves for powergaming reasons. If you want to take Creep, but have a different reason than the obvious for doing so -- as long as you do have an actual in-character reason -- then more power to you.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;824533This. Not that I mind a bit of allegory. I just don't think it's necessary for a compelling story, urban fantasy or otherwise. Allegory can be compelling. Non-allegory can be compelling.

One of the reasons I can safely say that Geist didn't interest me was because it didn't have any themes that resonated with human psychology. All of the other monsters types had premises that were fantastic equivalents of human experiences. Even Wraith was really an allegory about surviving heartbreak and moving on with your life to bigger and better things. Geist lacked that sort of human touchstone.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824559One of the reasons I can safely say that Geist didn't interest me was because it didn't have any themes that resonated with human psychology. All of the other monsters types had premises that were fantastic equivalents of human experiences. Even Wraith was really an allegory about surviving heartbreak and moving on with your life to bigger and better things. Geist lacked that sort of human touchstone.

I perfectly get this and there are plenty WoD gamers that are into these themes WW/OP, but I am not that kind of gamer. It's too arty farty for my taste. I just need stuff to do. A mission to accomplish.

That's why I like unisystem for example. It sets the setting up in a way it's easy to mix it up but still have focus. You could play Witchcraft with all five covenants investigating low key horror events, but you could also use one group and fight the Mad Gods and their servants or don't use any covenant and mix yourself in the war between angels and demons. Give the group and overarching goal to achieve and split that goal up in babysteps and those babysteps are the individual quests. That's how I work.

And that's why I really like backstory,  because I get my campaign ideas from that. It's easier to give a spin and something that's already there, than it is to make something up from scratch. I am more of a reactive person I guess.

What about...

Monte Cook's World of Darkness?

Dreaming Cities? (Tri-Stat)

What about Unisystem? It's simple, and you can use various supplements to cobble together various supernatural types.

---------------

Quote from: jan paparazzi;824186... So they should listen to George Carlin more often. He's my priest and I worship him.

...

Everyone should listen to GC more often. The Secret Masters demand it!

Quote from: jan paparazzi;824693I perfectly get this and there are plenty WoD gamers that are into these themes WW/OP, but I am not that kind of gamer. It's too arty farty for my taste. I just need stuff to do. A mission to accomplish.

RPGs are character-driven narratives by their nature. It's all well and good to have an overarching problem to solve but, unless the characters themselves resonate with players, few will want to play.

While TV dramas often have an overarching dillemma we watch them largely for the characters' responses to their lives rather than simply solving the problem with little fanfare. In RPGs the difference is that the players are in the driver seat.

Does that make sense?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;824912RPGs are character-driven narratives by their nature. It's all well and good to have an overarching problem to solve but, unless the characters themselves resonate with players, few will want to play.

While TV dramas often have an overarching dillemma we watch them largely for the characters' responses to their lives rather than simply solving the problem with little fanfare. In RPGs the difference is that the players are in the driver seat.

Does that make sense?

Yes, but that doesn't make me agree. I am talking about a campaign idea. You could have "Defeat the Symbiots." as a campaign idea. Players could play multiple missions in defeating them. Or they could just ignore it. Or join them.

Think of Skyrim. A Imperial-Stormcloak conflict wouldn't be bad for a tabletop campaign idea.

I think Demon's Souls backstory (A king lusts for power and channels souls. It works, but at a price. Now there's a fog rolling into the country bringing demons who devour every one.) is more interesting than "There is a country with fog and demons.".

It's juicier. It makes me wanna play it.