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Author Topic: Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?  (Read 12196 times)

Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2012, 03:10:00 PM »
Quote from: misterguignol;502368
I'm toying with setting up a Ravenloft sandbox campaign this year using the LotFP rules.  I've started writing up brief descriptions of the domains for new players.


Start a thread in Design forums if you feel like putting notes? I'd be more then glad to mindstorm a bit if you'd wish my humble help, as well as stealing the hell from you - Ravenloft is my favourite setting of DnD (And FR as well...hey, bug off, I started my adventure with RPGs at Baldur's Gate :P)
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

Werekoala

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2012, 03:22:16 PM »
Any universe that does not exist forever is grimdark - after all, no matter what you do, where, or to whom, in the end it all crumbles to dust/implodes/becomes frothy cherry nougat which the gods enjoy with a nice adult beverage.

Srsly - in the end, nothing matters...

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Lan Astaslem


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David R

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2012, 04:59:39 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;502342
I noticed that, though I think nobody cared ;). I think we should distinct between grimdark and Horror settings for RPGs. Maybe UA armies can be considered Grimdark, I don't know them that well, but Kult is (splatter)horror, clearly. Grimdark is a setting that's scary but does not go into horror, basically , for me.


I don't really think that horror should be excluded at least when it comes to RPGs. Whenever I think of GrimDark (not in the 40K sense) I think of material along the lines of Se7en and the original Vanishing (Spoorloos). If an RPG mimics the tone or inspires such a tone, then I think it's swimming in Grimdark territory. I'd go so far as to say, that it's easier to reach such a place using horror or elements of the horror genre.

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David R

Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #63 on: January 09, 2012, 05:18:23 PM »
Quote from: David R;502453
I don't really think that horror should be excluded at least when it comes to RPGs. Whenever I think of GrimDark (not in the 40K sense) I think of material along the lines of Se7en and the original Vanishing (Spoorloos). If an RPG mimics the tone or inspires such a tone, then I think it's swimming in Grimdark territory. I'd go so far as to say, that it's easier to reach such a place using horror or elements of the horror genre.

Regards,
David R


That's quite a tough stance on horror RPGs, David. Grimdark has generally a rather negative connotation, though of course, there's no true definition of it - perhaps'd you care to repeat yours, if I had omitted it?
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

Ian Warner

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #64 on: January 09, 2012, 05:26:58 PM »
Any setting is redeemable if played ironically!
Directing Editor of Kittiwake Classics

Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2012, 05:29:44 PM »
Quote from: Ian Warner;502465
Any setting is redeemable if played ironically!


This approach killed Warhammer.
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David R

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #66 on: January 09, 2012, 06:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;502462
That's quite a tough stance on horror RPGs, David. Grimdark has generally a rather negative connotation, though of course, there's no true definition of it - perhaps'd you care to repeat yours, if I had omitted it?


Well it's not really a tough stance on horror because I don't think that the "negative" connotations of GrimDark neccesarily means that such games are unplayable or not fun. I don't really have a firm definition but taking a cue from other kinds of media I would say that wallowing in a nihilistic pose, engaging in lurid subject matter or just generally presenting a setting where the participation of the PCs generally does little to affect the overall nature of the setting. Understand now, that my definition has really got nothing to do with this thread but since you asked.....

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David R

Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #67 on: January 09, 2012, 06:05:56 PM »
Quote from: David R;502495
Well it's not really a tough stance on horror because I don't think that the "negative" connotations of GrimDark neccesarily means that such games are unplayable or not fun. I don't really have a firm definition but taking a cue from other kinds of media I would say that wallowing in a nihilistic pose, engaging in lurid subject matter or just generally presenting a setting where the participation of the PCs generally does little to affect the overall nature of the setting. Understand now, that my definition has really got nothing to do with this thread but since you asked.....

Regards,
David R

Hey, every opinion matters, and the OP was just a not - so -subtle stab at Warhammer, so it's just as much on the topic as any other post, because there's no definite definition (tautology, I know, but bear with me) of "grimdark".

I'd personally say that what you described fits more for a setting that's tragedy then grimdark, as grimdark has a connotation of farce and hyperboles being a very strong element of it.

In fact, I'd say that someone should make RPG based on an idea of a Greek Tragedy and Nemesis.

Nemesis as in the concept of fate being impossible to defeat, not Nemesis the RPG ;).
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David R

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #68 on: January 09, 2012, 06:12:22 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;502496

.... as grimdark has a connotation of farce and hyperboles being a very strong element of it.


Oh yes, there is that but I have found that in those games which I consider GrimDark (and I'm including some of the games run by friends) all of them have numerous moments of levity.

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David R

Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #69 on: January 09, 2012, 06:14:31 PM »
Quote from: David R;502500
Oh yes, there is that but I have found that in those games which I consider GrimDark (and I'm including some of the games run by friends) all of them have numerous moments of levity.

Regards,
David R

Understandable. I am not myself against levity during a horror game session, in fact, I use it just as another tool of spreading fear to the players - everything's fine and relaxed, then suddenly, I shut it down.

I am just against putting Kult and UA in Grimdark shelf, as I find Grimdark to be a bit of pejorative term.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don't Like You thread should be closed

David R

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #70 on: January 09, 2012, 06:18:15 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;502501

I am just against putting Kult and UA in Grimdark shelf, as I find Grimdark to be a bit of pejorative term.


Fair enough.

Regards,
David R

Opaopajr

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2012, 06:47:56 PM »
So, what the hell is grimdark anyway? Has anyone cleared it up by now? Is it just perpetual "Life is misery and drudgery and then you die," or is it less immediately experiential and more directly tied to setting cosmology? Because role playing something like during the Black Plague of the Middle Age could be grimdark and qualify for both aspects (being such a physical and spiritual crisis of the times).

Define this stuff already.
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Rincewind1

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2012, 06:48:45 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;502513
So, what the hell is grimdark anyway? Has anyone cleared it up by now? Is it just perpetual "Life is misery and drudgery and then you die," or is it less immediately experiential and more directly tied to setting cosmology? Because role playing something like during the Black Plague of the Middle Age could be grimdark and qualify for both aspects (being such a physical and spiritual crisis of the times).

Define this stuff already.


To me, Grimdark is dark fantasy with added farce and hyperbole.
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Simlasa

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #73 on: January 09, 2012, 07:04:10 PM »
Quote from: Rincewind1;502514
To me, Grimdark is dark fantasy with added farce and hyperbole.
That works for me... except maybe I don't think it HAS to be fantasy (I've played in Cyberpunk games that I'd consider Grimdark). I don't see it as a pejorative term either... though some folks use it that way.

Daddy Warpig

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Are Grimdark Settings redeemable at all?
« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2012, 07:19:25 PM »
Quote from: Opaopajr;502513
So, what the hell is grimdark anyway?

Grimdark: Ridiculously dark and hopeless, as if written with the deliberate intent to make the setting as depressing as possible. Seems intended to induce feelings of despair in both players and characters.
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