Quote from: Motorskills;1030236They are on a ridiculous re-print number as well (sixth or more IIRC). They aren't just selling more, they are repeatedly selling beyond their (admittedly probably very careful) estimates.

  Bear in mind that even the much-maligned 4E PHB hit its eighth or ninth printing by the time production stopped.

Quote from: Haffrung;1030218They're not going to release the actual numbers. Publishers don't do that. So either you take your word for it or you don't.

However, the owner of my FLGS told me he sold 1,500 5E PHBs in 2017, which is the most of any RPG book since he started his business in the mid 80s.

I think 5E is a big success. I don't doubt that. I remember TSR gave actual numbers a few times and other publishers have.

A good measure I have seen of the success is the move to try to make D&D a "lifestyle brand" the way other "geek" things have become. It isn't about playing D&D but being apart of the tribe that likes D&D. I was at a Kohl's here in Milwaukee and I saw a pre-faded D&D t-shirt on the shelf.

Quote from: Ulairi;1030242I think 5E is a big success. I don't doubt that. I remember TSR gave actual numbers a few times and other publishers have.

  TSR stopped giving out actual numbers after the early 90s. (I collected TSR catalogs from the 2nd Edition era; they seem to have stopped giving the numbers out at about the time it became clear the catalogs were making it away from retailers and into the hands of fans.)

  2E's PHB, for comparison, sold over 300,000 units in its first year.

Quote from: Ulairi;1030203If the sales were that great they'd tell us.

Yeah, they'd be saying things like "We just had our best year since I started in 2002!" or "We've outsold 3.0 and 3.5 combined!" and things like that. By the way, the PHB recently hit #3 in all books on Amazon again and is currently at #47.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1030278Yeah, they'd be saying things like "We just had our best year since I started in 2002!" or "We've outsold 3.0 and 3.5 combined!" and things like that. By the way, the PHB recently hit #3 in all books on Amazon again and is currently at #47.

Again, that doesn't mean much to me. I think 5E is a success. I wish we'd get numbers

QuoteCould be they will go away, gush to some other non-gamers, and explain that a good way to get a feel for the hobby is to watch this YouTube channel or listen to this podcast, etc. The cycle continues, and our hobby continues to grow and evolve.

I sincerely hope so. Despite the renaissance in gaming recently, none of us can, or should, be complacent about encouraging new blood. The first question I have when sitting down with players at a convention is 'have you roleplayed before'? If they haven't, it's my responsibility to make the experience as welcoming for them as possible so that they'll want to play again.

I see no point in denigrating any part of our hobby, whether it's passive or active. While someone who's only ever watched Critical Role may not be an active gamer, they're certainly a potential gamer - and there may be many good reasons why they haven't yet taken the plunge. I think it's far better to make encouraging noises and gain some converts; this renaissance won't last forever.

Quote from: Loz;1030288I sincerely hope so. Despite the renaissance in gaming recently, none of us can, or should, be complacent about encouraging new blood. The first question I have when sitting down with players at a convention is 'have you roleplayed before'? If they haven't, it's my responsibility to make the experience as welcoming for them as possible so that they'll want to play again.

I see no point in denigrating any part of our hobby, whether it's passive or active. While someone who's only ever watched Critical Role may not be an active gamer, they're certainly a potential gamer - and there may be many good reasons why they haven't yet taken the plunge. I think it's far better to make encouraging noises and gain some converts; this renaissance won't last forever.

This guy gets it. Shame others don't.


...


From another blog I follow:

QuoteSo I was watching a recent hour-long YouTube interview with billionaire investor Cliff Asness. Always watch and listen to very smart people in fields other than your own ideally people who share a common language (in this case economics, he was a PhD student of Eugene Fama).

And he parenthetically remarks,

Quote from: Cliff AsnessYou can't fight language by the way. Language is democratic. If you continue to fight language for a very long period eventually you're just a bitter old man that no one understands. You just have to say "I lost" and kind of move on.

Quote from: Motorskills;1030236They are on a ridiculous re-print number as well (sixth or more IIRC). They aren't just selling more, they are repeatedly selling beyond their (admittedly probably very careful) estimates.

The copy of the 5E PHB I bought for use with AiME is eighth printing.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1030238Bear in mind that even the much-maligned 4E PHB hit its eighth or ninth printing by the time production stopped.

4e never made it into Costco, though...

Without knowing the size of the print runs, the edition of the printing doesn't tell us much (as far as numbers go). That's not to say 5e is not successful (it is), just how much is anyone's guess.

Quote from: Herne's Son;10303584e never made it into Costco, though...

True. I'm not disputing that 5E is, by all indications, a tremendous success, even if I am eccentric and crotchety enough not to be a big fan. I'm just pointing out that number of print runs appears to be a poor metric for comparison.

Quote from: Ulairi;1030156People watch the NFL because they are never going to be able to play in the NFL. I cannot play for the Oakland A's, if they'd let me, I'd do it. Anybody can play D&D.

Nobody is stopping them from playing D&D, play one game  your a gamer, until that happens your are not.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1030384Without knowing the size of the print runs, the edition of the printing doesn't tell us much (as far as numbers go). That's not to say 5e is not successful (it is), just how much is anyone's guess.

Correct. Like most of gaming's history, it is mostly a guessing game. All we can really say is that WotC is either conservative in the size of their print runs, or sales have exceeded their expectations (or both).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1030387Correct. Like most of gaming's history, it is mostly a guessing game. All we can really say is that WotC is either conservative in the size of their print runs, or sales have exceeded their expectations (or both).

Hasbro doesn't do small print runs.

When I was 11 (1978) a friend introduced me to a public access show where a group of older kids, roughly high school aged, played D&D in front a black and white camera for 3 hours or so. It was seriously a live feed from a gaming table, and pretty dorky at that. The DM was well prepared and had an 'I'm in charge' style that I don't particularly like in play but makes sense for this format. Anyway, this was an important part of our early-middle-school, how-do-I-get-in-on-this-new-big-kid-hobby process. We didn't watch it much after we started playing regularly ourselves. But I fondly remember those unwashed nerds and recognize their influence on me.

So, I sort of get why people like watching these things on youtube (though the idea that the 'players' are paid actors makes me throw up a little into my mouth, reswallow it, and then massively hurl, spraying the full contents of my digestive system all around the room). One thing sort of like this that my daughter played for me is The Adventure Zone, a pretty funny D&D podcast by the guys who make Monster Factory. Maybe they make money off of this, but it was pretty fun anyway.

The idea that watching or listening to any of this stuff makes you a 'gamer' is ludicrous. By some transitive property of human experience, I'm deeply embarrassed for all the poor young dipshits who think this is a position that can be defended. Or even explained.