Ah, Rule Zero in response to definition and classification...someone had to, I guess.

Quote from: Blacky the Blackball;788707What the hell is a "frenemy" anyway?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=frenemy

Quote from: CRKrueger;788729Ah, Rule Zero in response to definition and classification...someone had to, I guess.

You sound... exactly like the people whining about why aren't there warlords and martial encounter powers over at TBP. Which is hilarious.

(Why isn't there a "Go Back to RPGnet" smiley? Pundit?)

Quote from: CRKrueger;788729Ah, Rule Zero in response to definition and classification...someone had to, I guess.

I'm surprised it took so long, honestly.

Quote from: jgants;788736I'm surprised it took so long, honestly.

It's almost like those limitations were arbitrary as fuck 30 years ago.

Quote from: LibraryLass;788735You sound... exactly like the people whining about why aren't there warlords and martial encounter powers over at TBP. Which is hilarious.

(Why isn't there a "Go Back to RPGnet" smiley? Pundit?)

Actually, you're the one whining, in case you hadn't noticed.  The rest of us are addressing the OP, just not providing the answer you liked, obviously.  The attempted button pushing though is interesting, for a fairly sedate thread.  Missing the 5e Marleydrama were we?

Quote from: CRKrueger;788739Actually, you're the one whining, in case you hadn't noticed.  The rest of us are addressing the OP, just not providing the answer you liked, obviously.  The attempted button pushing though is interesting, for a fairly sedate thread.  Missing the 5e Marleydrama were we?

Actually, you were the one to completely dismiss someone else's position using literally the exact same reason the 4venger crowd uses as their go-to excuse.

Sorry, guess I missed it.  What "position" did I dismiss?

Since I don't read 4vengers arguments over at purple I don't know, but which of my original points do they frequently make?

Quote from: What I ACTUALLY saidIt's closer to OSR probably, then any WotC version of D&D but only in a horseshoes and hand-grenades sense.

It's still superheroic as written.
It's still includes anime influence.
It's still Magic:The RPG in that it's powers-based exception rules design.
It's still based on core design elements of 3e and 4e, just not taken to idiotic extremes.

It's a bridge, an umbrella, the edition that all the warriors can stomach, maybe.

However, in being the second game for everyone, I don't really see it replacing an OSR game, 3e or 4e in anyone's lineup unless they were fed up with the old game and were looking for a replacement anyway.

Doesn't sound like a 4venger's complaint, but you never know I guess...

Quote from: LibraryLass;788737It's almost like those limitations were arbitrary as fuck 30 years ago.

I'm pretty sure the limitations weren't arbitrary so much as an unscientific attempt to thematically balance the various races and classes.

Quote from: CRKrueger;788729Ah, Rule Zero in response to definition and classification...someone had to, I guess.

Considerering 5e was designed under the asumption Rule Zero would be in full use and to support it, as opposed to 4e, 3e or really most RPGs I've read, I find it hard tp talk about it without taking personal customization into account to be missing the point.

In particular areas often called out as problematic, such as at will cantrips and fast natural healing, have been specifically pointed out during design as areas that are meant to be "dialed". The PHB default is set at the high end of the scale, but we know the DMG will offer alternatives.

Criticising the game based on these areas is premature at best, as we obviously have no DMG and thus no "dials".

Quote from: CRKrueger;788739The rest of us are addressing the OP, just not providing the answer you liked, obviously.

Yeah, I'm not complaining about 5e. I'm saying that it is confusing to me that 5e is popular with people who like OSR games despite the fact to me it looks and plays more like 3e and 4e, games the OSR disliked so much they invented a large collection of retro-clones / retro-inspired games to play instead.

Myself, I'm just "meh" about 5e. But apparently explaining why I don't want to use it for my AD&D-style games constitutes "whining about 5e". Or something.

If you enjoy 5e, great! If you love 5e but hate 3e and/or 4e with a passion, good for you but you confuse the hell out of me.

Quote from: jgants;788748Yeah, I'm not complaining about 5e. I'm saying that it is confusing to me that 5e is popular with people who like OSR games despite the fact to me it looks and plays more like 3e and 4e, games the OSR disliked so much they invented a large collection of retro-clones / retro-inspired games to play instead.

Myself, I'm just "meh" about 5e. But apparently explaining why I don't want to use it for my AD&D-style games constitutes "whining about 5e". Or something.

If you enjoy 5e, great! If you love 5e but hate 3e and/or 4e with a passion, good for you but you confuse the hell out of me.

Mind, I'm not precisely OSR, more a 3e era starter who grew quite dissatisfied with 3e and 4e.

Your stance mirrors mine. I'm not bothered by your stance on 5e, but from your comment, I'm confused on your conclusion.

Quote from: jgants;788748Myself, I'm just "meh" about 5e. But apparently explaining why I don't want to use it for my AD&D-style games constitutes "whining about 5e". Or something.

Remember, games are the religion of some fanatics. Anything but unbridled enthusiasm means that to them, you are a heathen unbeliever and should be beheaded.

As far as the OP, 5E is the new girl in class that gives it up for everyone because she is desperate to be liked. The OSR sees 5E as an easy lay and she sees them as a steppingstone to popularity.

Quote from: CRKrueger;788744Sorry, guess I missed it.  What "position" did I dismiss?

Since I don't read 4vengers arguments over at purple I don't know, but which of my original points do they frequently make?

Quote from: What you actually said;788729Ah, Rule Zero in response to definition and classification...someone had to, I guess.

As to what I was getting at: See Gold Roger's post.

What I object to is you and jgants classifying 5e as being that eternal grognard cypher of "anime fantasy", and a bastion of the same quasi-superheroic school of design as 4e. I agree with you that it's not strictly OSR, but it's a hell of a lot closer to it than to 4e, and with or without the guidelines that are supposedly in the DMG, it's the work of minutes to correct. Furthermore, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that in a game that has chosen to emphasize the GM's judgment and suggest that a GM should customize the options available to their liking (and, so I'm led to understand, will even give you tools to help you do just that in the DMG), that one should do exactly that.