Quote from: Sacrosanct;588929One of my favorites is Cliff Young (a recent entry).  Dude was in his 60s and ran for days.  Literally, non stop, and beat the hell out of professional runners in an ultra marathon.  So when people read LOTR or watch the movie and say, "There's no way Aragon and co. could run for that long!"

They should read up on Cliff Young.

20 Con with 1500 ranks in Running.  

The Seven Geases. You can survive seven obvious life-threatening eldritch horrors in a row, but still slip and fall off a cliff if you're incautious.

Bear in mind that, having been introduced to RPGs in the early 1990s, I have had plenty of experience with TSR-era D&D, but not so much with classic, "old school" modes of play.

I cannot underestimate the impact that Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" stories have had on my perception of D&D. Not just the magic system, but the alienness of the setting, the rakish protagonists, and even the baroque language (surely an ancestor of the High Gygaxian acrolect so familiar to the fans of AD&D 1e), all made me grok the essence of D&D in a way that Tolkien, Howard and Leiber by themselves couldn't do it.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;588938The Seven Geases. You can survive seven obvious life-threatening eldritch horrors in a row, but still slip and fall off a cliff if you're incautious.

Also my go-to text -- along with Leiber's "The Jewels In The Forest", Howard's "Red Nails" and of course, "The Hobbit" -- for the all-too-prevalent idea that dungeon-crawling has no basis in the sword-and-sorcery lit that inspired D&D.

And, like nearly every CAS yarn I've read, a joy to read.

Quote from: The Were-Grognard;588903Seconded.  Take up a combat sport for some perspective on what you can actually do in a combat "round", or take up parkour, and at the very least, gain an appreciation for the thief's Climb Walls ability.  I know I have

At the risk of going a bit Tyler Durden, I'd say you should be in an actual, people-are-seriously-trying-to-hurt-you, fight. It's too fast, it's chaotic, it's brutal and it's dangerous; without training, you won't have time to properly think about and analyze the situation, you'll just be scrabbling to not die. It'll give you a much better respect for the decision to actually go into a fight, and how stupid it is to take that risk casually; it's the thought processes most "average" characters will go through.

Don't go out and get in a fight, though. You may die - or worse - and you may get arrested.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;588929One of my favorites is Cliff Young (a recent entry).  Dude was in his 60s and ran for days.  Literally, non stop, and beat the hell out of professional runners in an ultra marathon.  So when people read LOTR or watch the movie and say, "There's no way Aragon and co. could run for that long!"

They should read up on Cliff Young.

Probably an anomaly in his system that kept the chemical fatigue levels from building up. I saw a special on a guy who could also run indefinitely and when they ran lab tests on him it was because his muscles never hit the chemical threshold to cause fatigue. So for most people, it's not doable. You can't train that, you either have a body that is made to go forever or not.

Quote from: ptingler;589018Probably an anomaly in his system that kept the chemical fatigue levels from building up. I saw a special on a guy who could also run indefinitely and when they ran lab tests on him it was because his muscles never hit the chemical threshold to cause fatigue. So for most people, it's not doable. You can't train that, you either have a body that is made to go forever or not.

Not true. After Mr. Young it became standard practice among runners of the Sydney to Melbourne Ultra Marathon to run the course more or less continuously.

Just about anyone can run 100+ miles with proper training and talented folks can run much further.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon

Quote from: Piestrio;589027Not true. After Mr. Young it became standard practice among runners of the Sydney to Melbourne Ultra Marathon to run the course more or less continuously.

Just about anyone can run 100+ miles with proper training and talented folks can run much further.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon

Yeah, I was just going to say, "Except if you read the link, it states you can."  

But even if it were an anomaly, why couldn't a PC do it?  Aren't PC's the exception, rather than the norm?

I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable for a player to say that their PC could do what we initially consider superhuman feats because we have plenty of real life examples of people doing just that.  Like Jacklyn Lucas (also on the list) who survived throwing himself on not just one, but TWO grenades and living, as well as falling 3500 feet with two malfunctioning parachutes and surviving that too.

Quote from: Piestrio;589027Not true. After Mr. Young it became standard practice among runners of the Sydney to Melbourne Ultra Marathon to run the course more or less continuously.

Just about anyone can run 100+ miles with proper training and talented folks can run much further.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon

It is true, but I think you and I are talking about two different things. You're talking about being able to run long distances. Yes, you can train for that. I'm talking about the body actually not fatiguing because the normal process in the body that produces muscle fatigue doesn't happen.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;589030Yeah, I was just going to say, "Except if you read the link, it states you can."  

But even if it were an anomaly, why couldn't a PC do it?  Aren't PC's the exception, rather than the norm?

I'm just saying that it's not unreasonable for a player to say that their PC could do what we initially consider superhuman feats because we have plenty of real life examples of people doing just that.  Like Jacklyn Lucas (also on the list) who survived throwing himself on not just one, but TWO grenades and living, as well as falling 3500 feet with two malfunctioning parachutes and surviving that too.

Yeah, in a game, especially a fantasy one, pretty much anything goes.

Quote from: The Butcher;588975I cannot underestimate the impact that Jack Vance's "Dying Earth" stories have had on my perception of D&D. Not just the magic system, but the alienness of the setting, the rakish protagonists, and even the baroque language (surely an ancestor of the High Gygaxian acrolect so familiar to the fans of AD&D 1e), all made me grok the essence of D&D in a way that Tolkien, Howard and Leiber by themselves couldn't do it.

I so love The Dying Earth stories. I cannot recommend them highly enough, especially the Turjan stories.

The Cudgel stories are often times how things actually played out, though.

Im gonna echo some suggestions, Sun Tzu The Art of War, Go Rin No Sho (The Book of Five Rings), and The Prince. I also agree with firearms/tactical training. I would also add to that Army Field Manuals. From the world of fiction I would suggest assorted Conan stories, Edgar Rice Burroughs (Tarzan, Barsoom, Venus and other series. I really like a novelette not part of a series by him called Beyond Thirty.), and finally the "Hammers Slammers" series by David Drake.

Quote from: Ladybird;589001At the risk of going a bit Tyler Durden, I'd say you should be in an actual, people-are-seriously-trying-to-hurt-you, fight. It's too fast, it's chaotic, it's brutal and it's dangerous; without training, you won't have time to properly think about and analyze the situation, you'll just be scrabbling to not die. It'll give you a much better respect for the decision to actually go into a fight, and how stupid it is to take that risk casually; it's the thought processes most "average" characters will go through.

Don't go out and get in a fight, though. You may die - or worse - and you may get arrested.

Even a fighting code sport will quickly dispel the notion that combats are characterized by an abundance of control.

Quote from: ptingler;589047It is true, but I think you and I are talking about two different things. You're talking about being able to run long distances. Yes, you can train for that. I'm talking about the body actually not fatiguing because the normal process in the body that produces muscle fatigue doesn't happen.

But we don't have any reason to think that Cliff Young was such a case.

Quote from: Piestrio;588889I've found over the years a lot of gamers have very odd ideas about what the human body is capable of, sometimes overestimating, sometimes under.

Not to mention the film-makers who have the same basic problem.

Guys who fall 60 feet off a cliff/buliding/bridge and then grab a tree root or flag pole one-handed to stop the fall without ripping their arms out of their sockets ... people hanging by their fingertips one handed and then pulling themselves onto a cliff, building top, steel girder, whatever ... jedi knights leaping off buildings and into moving speeders ... good luck with that!

You see this stuff in the movies all the time. No wonder common folks can't get a sense for what is real and what is total fabrication. There should be a rule that you can't put something into a movie unless you can get a stunt guy to do it and live.

There's this low-budget chopsocky flick, "Chocolate" (on NetFlix) that I really recommend.

It's very low budget, so no CGI, just actual people using actual martial arts. The stunts are awesome, especially the guy falling 30' to face plant on asphalt (and yes, the bloopers at the end show him being taken off to the hospital, carefully).