Quote from: RPGPundit;1067827Or you can use stuff like Game of Thrones to encourage newbs to see the virtues of a human-only campaign.

Because incest, rape and regicide are the reason people play D&D.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1067927I don't think the OP's observation is anything new. Talislanta may have marketed itself as the "no elves" game, but it also had a distinct lack of humans, dwarves, halflings, etc. You basically played creatures created straight out of Jim Henson's workshop.

My dimension hopping party really needs to visit the planet of the muppets... On a related note... So does the new doctor who.

Quote from: Brad;1067937Oh look, another person telling me I'm not allowed to have an opinion about rpgs. Is "gatekeeper" just a buzzword for someone who won't play with you? Like, start your own stupid fucking game. I could care less if a bunch of idiots want to play D&D in a way I think is stupid. Conversely, I'm under no obligation to play with them.

No, its a term for someone who is declaring whole playstyles "badwrongfun" because they don't agree with you. You didn't declare, "I prefer this." You declared that anyone who doesn't play your way is "fucking up" D&D. That the game would be better off without players who like those things in it.

THAT is gatekeeping. You are saying "That way of playing is NOT D&D/Not Real Roleplaying and the things they like need to be driven from the hobby." Its obnoxious crap like that which drives potential recruits from this section of the hobby into the arms of the SJW types. You're ceding whole categories of potential players to toxic control freaks because you'd rather limit the inhuman creatures to pointy ears and bearded ladies and declare that playing a goblin or kobold or dragonborn, even if those things are all sapient creatures that live in the world in sufficient numbers to have cultures, is "badwrongfun" and that you're a bad roleplayer if you like that stuff instead what you like.

My opinion is "play what you want." While you claim that is what you believe, you insist on throwing in the caveat that you can only do that if you acknowledge that you are doing it wrong if its not done to your preference. I don't have that caveat... I just acknowledge its not to my tastes, but there's nothing wrong with it.

The really funny thing in this? I only play humans (and the occasional half-elf) and I'd be perfectly happy in a human only or 1e races only game, but I also understand that the RPG community is bigger than just what I enjoy. If someone wants to play a Bugbear Warlock, more power to them. I'll even play in a game with them if they're not a jerk.

I admit to being a bit jerk on these boards. Granted more than a little on these boards. I have the stones to admit it.

What bothers me more than DMs refusing to allow players to play more than the core. Is people going on a message boards doing the internet equivalent of running their mouth. Then acting shocked... shocked they say when they get any negative pushback of any kind. If one does not want pushback then don't post publicly on a forum where it's seen by everyone. Sure in the imaginary worlds that they create in their heads no one dares to criticize back. In reality where we all live one does not post anything and everything no matter how inflammatory it is then get bothered by negative feedback. Honestly almost no one cares. I understand and respect not wanting to allow more than the core races. I will not respect a fellow gamer or DM who acts like playing a non-core races ruins D&D completely. If it was that simple and most DMs so easily triggered and offended by it. The hobby would have died with 1E D&D.

I usually played human pre-3E D&D not for any real love of the race. Simply because of no level limit. When I played or will play a non-human race in say 2E I play the class that has the highest level limit. Sometimes certain DMs wanted to play an all Dwarf or Elf campaign myself and others said yes only if the level limits were removed. Otherwise we refused. The DM is under no obligation to allow me to play without level limits. I'm under no obligation either to play a demi-human race with level limits. I don't allow every race and it needs to be at least an uncommon race. As some races can be mechanically superior than the core and possibly cause issues at the table. I respectfully decline in many cases. The player can accept it or move one. If a fellow DM wants to get on my bad side go into a rant as a DM how bad non-core races are then as a player take one. No hypocrisy there not at all.

As for better and  mechanically advantageous it's the same damn thing. Claiming one is different than the other is just semantics imo.

Quote from: Chris24601;1067903Congratulations to both sides on making OSR a toxic brand.

The only people contributing to any toxicity in the OSR are the whiny fucks who continually bitch about toxicity in the OSR.

Quote from: kythri;1067975The only people contributing to any toxicity in the OSR are the whiny fucks who continually bitch about toxicity in the OSR.

Right, despite the hilarious fact that it's at war with itself.  

It's a gate keeping movement anyway, all the people who play 'the right way' belong in the OSR, every other wrongthinker isn't one of US.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1067976Right, despite the hilarious fact that it's at war with itself.  

It's a gate keeping movement anyway, all the people who play 'the right way' belong in the OSR, every other wrongthinker isn't one of US.

Gatekeeping is such a spurious charge, as well.  There is literally nobody in the hobby preventing anyone from buying what they want, running it how they want, playing it how they want.  People on the Internet can say whatever they want, but their words hold absolutely no authority on anything.  

In regards to peeople on the Internet, there is no such thing as gatekeeping when it comes to playing games.

The only real gatekeeping being done is banning of people from conventions or similar/associated arenas - quite literally, closing the gate on those folks - and that's being done by the assholes who bitch the most about gatekeeping, those currently in positions of relative authority in the industry.

Quote from: kythri;1067979Gatekeeping is such a spurious charge, as well.  There is literally nobody in the hobby preventing anyone from buying what they want, running it how they want, playing it how they want.  People on the Internet can say whatever they want, but their words hold absolutely no authority on anything.  

In regards to peeople on the Internet, there is no such thing as gatekeeping when it comes to playing games.

Even it's not effective that doesn't mean it's not gatekeeping.

But if your assertions are correct, then there's no reason for whining endlessly on this forum about how awful rpg.net is; they're just saying things on the internet. Everyone, stop whining about rpg.net! Thanks!

What does any of this sad, pathetic whining about people playing RPGs the wrong way have to do with the OSR.

The Punditthing does not speak on behalf of The OSR (whatever that might be as any sort of organization, because such an organization does not exist.)

He froths, as far as I can tell, to generate sales. And a few, sad adults follow strange gnashing of teeth as if they have something of import to say about the state of the world.

This is all about pissing into the wind and feeling good for for feeling cranky about something. And, of course, about the enragement engine the Punditthing cranks up to no real purpose on occasion. But wiser people know better and ignore that.

But it has fuck all to do at the OSR, which demands, as the first games did, that you make up whatever crazy settings you want and play that shit.

Quote from: rawma;1067986Even it's not effective that doesn't mean it's not gatekeeping.

But if your assertions are correct, then there's no reason for whining endlessly on this forum about how awful rpg.net is; they're just saying things on the internet. Everyone, stop whining about rpg.net! Thanks!

Can we laugh at them?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1067996Can we laugh at them?

I say laugh at everyone and everything you feels deserves it. Feel free to laugh at my game when it's done too if you think it deserves it.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1067942A lot of anger there, snowflake.

It's funny how when someone expresses an opinion you dislike, you call them angry. How about I just don't give a fuck what you think? How about that?

Quote from: Chris24601;1067961No, its a term for someone who is declaring whole playstyles "badwrongfun" because they don't agree with you. You didn't declare, "I prefer this." You declared that anyone who doesn't play your way is "fucking up" D&D. That the game would be better off without players who like those things in it.

THAT is gatekeeping. You are saying "That way of playing is NOT D&D/Not Real Roleplaying and the things they like need to be driven from the hobby." Its obnoxious crap like that which drives potential recruits from this section of the hobby into the arms of the SJW types. You're ceding whole categories of potential players to toxic control freaks because you'd rather limit the inhuman creatures to pointy ears and bearded ladies and declare that playing a goblin or kobold or dragonborn, even if those things are all sapient creatures that live in the world in sufficient numbers to have cultures, is "badwrongfun" and that you're a bad roleplayer if you like that stuff instead what you like.

My opinion is "play what you want." While you claim that is what you believe, you insist on throwing in the caveat that you can only do that if you acknowledge that you are doing it wrong if its not done to your preference. I don't have that caveat... I just acknowledge its not to my tastes, but there's nothing wrong with it.

The really funny thing in this? I only play humans (and the occasional half-elf) and I'd be perfectly happy in a human only or 1e races only game, but I also understand that the RPG community is bigger than just what I enjoy. If someone wants to play a Bugbear Warlock, more power to them. I'll even play in a game with them if they're not a jerk.

I can say whatever I want, whenever I want. I'm not keeping a single person from playing however they want except people who'd like to play in a campaign I'm running. I don't have any caveats; if you want to play a bunch of bullshit like dragonmen and catpeople, then yes, you're a retard. Can retards run their own games? Surely. But don't tell me I have to play with them, or accept their games as legitimate.

What the hell is so difficult about this for you to understand?

The fact that you are judging a bunch of people who are not playing pretend magic dragonmen in the same way you play pretend magic elfmen is the very definition of gatekeeping.

You do not have to play it or like it. But do not pretend there is a pecking order between the way you play pretend and the way others do.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1068016The fact that you are judging a bunch of people who are not playing pretend magic dragonmen in the same way you play pretend magic elfmen is the very definition of gatekeeping.

That's not gatekeeping.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1068016The fact that you are judging a bunch of people who are not playing pretend magic dragonmen in the same way you play pretend magic elfmen is the very definition of gatekeeping.

You do not have to play it or like it. But do not pretend there is a pecking order between the way you play pretend and the way others do.

Don't waste your time and do not feed the troll. Whatever point he was trying to make was lost once he compared those who have a different play style as retards. Poster get push back and everyone else who thinks differently is a retard, nazi etc. Don't post on forums if one is not going to like the response he or she is going to get.