This is a continuation topic for Black Hack
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/anyone-playing-the-black-hack/
It got quite a heated comments of pros and cons about the system.
Time is flying fast for me and I haven't yet to get this to the table, but I am about to dig in.
Skimming through this, I totally see the pros and cons. Makes me think if it's not too simple, is it a game at all? Does the math hold up? I also think it is quite liberating for a GM to sit back in combat focus on story more.
But I mostly am wondering if BH has stood the test of time? It came out with a big hype. Now the 2e has cooled off. Are people still playing it? Or is there spiritual successor for BH now?
I am not playing it. The devs unwarranted attack against Venger burned my goodwill towards supporting him.
I don't play it. The original BH is a special kind of abstract and sleek looking animal, while BH2e is too complicated for not much benefit.
Quote from: Snowman0147 on October 23, 2020, 11:28:46 AM
I am not playing it. The devs unwarranted attack against Venger burned my goodwill towards supporting him.
I never heard of this, when did this happen. I also have a copy of it but wasnt very interested until i saw the Black Sword hack which is a more Elric inspired thing i could have bought standalone. I probably will never play the black hack, theres stuff in it i like but those things can easily be ripped out for other games. I may play black sword hack just cause i love Elric of Melnibone.
Venger can tell you about it better than I can. I caught wind of it just when the second edition was closing so too late to pull out. I was not happy about it. Though I am interested in this Black Sword Hack.
I have no interest in any game where the GM doesn't get to roll dice. If I'd have known BH was such as system I'd have never bought it in the first place.
Quote from: Snowman0147 on October 23, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Venger can tell you about it better than I can. I caught wind of it just when the second edition was closing so too late to pull out. I was not happy about it. Though I am interested in this Black Sword Hack.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/331118
Here you go
Quote from: Slambo on October 23, 2020, 08:17:40 PM
Quote from: Snowman0147 on October 23, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Venger can tell you about it better than I can. I caught wind of it just when the second edition was closing so too late to pull out. I was not happy about it. Though I am interested in this Black Sword Hack.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/331118
Here you go
Thank you. I will check it out once I get the chance.
I read the other thread and then I found the rules online here: https://the-black-hack.jehaisleprintemps.net/ (says it's used with permission... who knows!)
My opinion without testing or playing it:
It's a fuckload of shite if it's pretending to be OSR. It is not OSR. According to the armor rules, this rule has no variable absorbtions, being between 2 to 8 points: "Armor provides protection by reducing all incoming damage. Each type will reduce damage by a limited amount. Armor Points are regained after a character rests. Once the player or monster has used armor to absorb its maximum amount, they are too tired or wounded to make effective use of it again - they then begin taking full damage."
In addition to this, the "Monsters don't make tests - a character must avoid their attacks by making a test, the only time a monster would roll is for damage." makes little sense to me. WHY not have the DM roll the monster's To Hit, and THEN figure out IF the PC avoided part of the blow, and if not, then spend armor points to see if -xd4 is removed from the damage given. Actually, I don't like the idea of calling it armor points - should be FATIGUE POINTS if going that route - have the player decide if HP loss or temporary sagging stats would be better - give both GM & players agency! *sigh* But that's just my opinion...
I never liked it to begin with.
The whole thing just sort of missed me, I read a bit about it and nothing really grabbed me.
I like some of the concepts in it, however I have to say I like much that is derived from it better than itself.
For example, I picked up the RAD Hack which is a Gamma-World like take on it. The print version was $6 on Lulu.
Also, Solar Blades & Cosmic Spells is another variant and it is packed full of fun. It seems like a great system for running a game more in a Farscape vein rather than Star Wars.
In theory, the PCs rolling for Active Defense vs. Static Attack isn't much different that rolling Active Attack vs. Static Defense...in theory.
I tried that back in the 3e days...and FOR ME it was unfulfilling as the DM, even though it engaged the players nicely. I'm actually trying that again with my current fantasy RPG playtest, or at least listing it as an optional rule.
I'd like to hear more about the Black Sword hack.
What happened between the authors and Venger Ass'Nasty Satanis?
Did Venger write a blog about it?
Of course, if they shat without cause on the V-man, they can go fuck themselves!
(with a tentacle, in the butt)
Found it
http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2018/09/psychotic-stalinist-prude-david-black.html?m=1
https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2018/09/alpha-blue-boycott.html?m=1
I kinda regret giving the guy my money now, even though i already acknowkedged id likely never play this game.
Quote from: consolcwby on October 24, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
It's a fuckload of shite if it's pretending to be OSR. It is not OSR. According to the armor rules, this rule has no variable absorbtions, being between 2 to 8 points: "Armor provides protection by reducing all incoming damage. Each type will reduce damage by a limited amount. Armor Points are regained after a character rests. Once the player or monster has used armor to absorb its maximum amount, they are too tired or wounded to make effective use of it again - they then begin taking full damage."
Van Grasstek's Game of Dungeon was released in 1974 and it also had armor acting as extra hit points. I tried using it myself but it was more complicated than it needed to be. So, as a concept it's old school. Whether it's OSR or not I couldn't tell you as those two things are only slightly related.
Quote from: Spinachcat on October 24, 2020, 07:56:32 PM
In theory, the PCs rolling for Active Defense vs. Static Attack isn't much different that rolling Active Attack vs. Static Defense...in theory.
I tried that back in the 3e days...and FOR ME it was unfulfilling as the DM, even though it engaged the players nicely. I'm actually trying that again with my current fantasy RPG playtest, or at least listing it as an optional rule.
I got it to work in 3e, but the secret was the define the numbers such that you had the same probabilities whether the DM rolled or the players rolled. For example, I would write out the player's Armor Class as 15 [+4] so either I could roll a monster attack vs a 15 AC or the player could roll an defense roll at +4. That way, if I was busy resolving one player's actions, I could ask another player to "make four defense rolls" versus the monster he's fighting.