With all the talk about D&D - anyone play or considering playing Savage Worlds Pathfinder? I'm a D&D refugee and Savage Worlds has increasingly become a thing at my table.

I've been running it - and modified it for 1e Greybox Realms style play, and it's pretty freakin cool. I've removed the Pathfinder specific stuff, and just running it on the chassis, modifying things to fit the 1e aesthetic, and its humming right along.

It's currently fulfilling my desire to play/GM D&D-style fantasy without the D&D d20 system. I find it runs faster. It's higher octane in the sense that with all that is available in Savage Worlds (SWADE edition) you can tune things up/down to your own desire with very little effort, and without breaking the system.

Classes are there*, all the D&D magic items from the DMG are there. The Bestiary is rock solid - minus trademarked monsters which you can fairly easily recreate.

It's D&D 99% recreated on the Savage Worlds chassis. And it plays great. As I mentioned above, as I've been running the game I've been re-designing elements to represent 1e D&D Greybox Realms, rather than 3.x Pathfinder. Clerics now operate closer to Eric Boyds Powers and Pantheons (i.e. Clerics are closer to being Speciality Priests rather than a generic Cleric). I'm incorporating Martial Arts rules with nods to Oriental Adventures, as well as weapon-schools for European fighting arts. I retuned the races to reflect the Realms - there are definite differences in the races between Pathfinder and the Realms, plus I'm greasing the pipe for Spelljammer later down the road.

*Classes in Savage Pathfinder are an Edge framework like in the Savage Worlds Rifts game, where they've recreated the D&D classes as a package. And each Class Edge translates the tropes of the D&D Classes to Savage Worlds and scales it up by Rank, much like D&D does in leveling. The outcome is that some classes are more robust and better than their D&D counterparts. Notable ones being Sorcerers - whose Bloodlines have their own mini-lines of development that are almost as good as their spellcasting components. They're very different than their D&D counterparts that always felt like Charisma-Wizards.

the best part is "Class Edges" in Savage Pathfinder are optional. Each Class has a lot of features, but they have some drawbacks. You do *not* have to play with a Class Edge. The assumption for having a Class Edge is a nod to the assumptions of early editions of D&D that held PC's are "special" and highly trained individuals that spent years learning their respective craft. This is reflected in all the specifics of their Class Edge package. You do not *need* to choose a Class Edge, and you're compensated in this by getting a few other skills, and you can learn a Class Edge in-game or pick up new Class Edges at the discretion of your GM - as a nod to Multiclassing.

Anyhow... I've been running it. I'm digging it. I'm about to drop a bunch of money on terrain for battle-mat play (including possibly a 3d printer) - yeah I'm that much into it. If anyone has other insights or comments or questions - let's hear it!

I'm interested in what others (if any) have to say about their experiences with it thus far. Or if you're interested and have questions - I'd be happy to try and answer them, especially in regards to play-differences between D&D and Savage Worlds...

I for one am curious about the system, why don't you create a thread explaining it?

I mean imagine you're teaching it so someone can GM/Play the thing.

By "the system" I mean SW Pathfinder and how you've modified it to get the results you're getting.

I am waiting for it in distribution. So far, it looks to be only in the preorder via Pinnacle's late pledge thing. I almost pulled the trigger since my I had very fond memories of Rise of the Runelords back in the day (done with 3.5 and then 4e D&D, actually). I'd like to hear more details, and whether the $300 RL pledge seems worth it. I thought that it was a little steep (in light of my $220 Deadlands all-in, but I suppose paper and production costs are way up).

Me....A modded (300+ page behemoth) version of it. Message me for PDFs if your interested.

Im using it to run a the Adventure 'Zietgiest' made for 4e, PF, and 5e, and importing some 4e elements so it would run better (like item rarities and rituals).
Pretty cool so far. I have implimented all of Cyrils supplements & some other ones.

What I liked was that players can still feel cool without feeling like they can do everything. My PCs actually purchased some potions for once and used the favor system to assist them because before in regular PF they could just do everything themselves and buckets of resources meant that healing was trivial.

Edit: I would say the system needs a somewhat experienced GM. Bennies are your PCs HP effectively (more like second chances) and your in control of handing them out (beyond a baseline). In that sense you very directly control your PCs longevity.

Still playing SW Rifts myself. Honestly, if I want to play PF, I'll probably just play PF. More power to Pinnacle though.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 29, 2021, 12:44:27 PM
I for one am curious about the system, why don't you create a thread explaining it?

I mean imagine you're teaching it so someone can GM/Play the thing.

By "the system" I mean SW Pathfinder and how you've modified it to get the results you're getting.

I'll explain it here since I'm not sure how popular Savage Worlds is around these parts...

Like Shrieking, I'm trying to get the Pathfinder context-specific stuff out and the stuff I want in doing the least amount of work possible. That said my documents are already getting into the 100-page mark... so heh. In my defense a lot of it is new content specific for my Greybox take which is 1e with 2e elements.

So for example...

The Savage Pathfinder Cleric takes its queues directly from from Pathfinder 1e Core. Clerics there are pretty generic and they're healbots, lets face it. I *never* liked that in D&D and I like it even less in Pathfinder where they went ALL-IN on the idea. To me Clerics should be representatives of their Deities and should reflect that in their abilities. 'Faiths and Pantheons' is one of the best books ever written for D&D in any edition. It remains the standard for me in how Clerics should be written up. So that means converting all the deities from the Greybox to Savage Pathfinder, and retooling the Domains to match. It also means reworking the Cleric Class Edge to better reflect these changes.

Savage Worlds Cleric Rework

So now, not all Clerics can even Heal. Only those whose Gods have it in their purview. I've listed the general creeds and dogmas of their respective deities so players can play confidently on how they want to express their characters without trying to pigeonhole themselves into their alignment ideas. Yes Alignment exists, but the dogmas are more important. I'll be adding more deities later - like all the non-human ones. The Realms have a LOT of Gods and Pantheons...

New/Different Races
I've also retooled the races. Savage Pathfinder goes with a 4-point score for their Pathfinder races, which is good. However their versions of the standard D&D races are specific to Pathfinder's Golarion setting. I was aiming for Greybox Realms - with a few tweaks tossed in to nod towards directions I'm going later - Spelljammer (so Sun Elf stats are also Imperial Elf stats).

Savage Realms Races

I'm working on Martial Arts system pulling inspiration from Oriental Adventures, as well as fighting styles from 7th Sea leveraging the Savage Worlds Pirates of the Spanish Main fencing school systems. It's still a work in progress (as is everything).

New Classes
I'm also working on new Class Edges - Currently working on the Cavalier from 1e D&D, with elements from the Pathfinder game I liked. It's still rough, and I'm testing it out. I'm on tap to make more Orders for it. I really wanted to fix the Cavalier from being so optimal at being mounted, which 1e Cavaliers had going for them. I think I landed on a good balance so Cavalier players are dangerous mounted or on foot. This is largely due to the Savage Worlds system being flexible.

Savage Cavalier

I plan on making some Class Edges from Oriental Adventure as well - the Sohei, the Samurai, and the Kensei Prestige Edge. The Samurai will be built similar but different in emphasis to the Cavalier. The Sohei will be a "Mystic" similar to the Ranger or Paladin in Savage Pathfinder, but with a different emphasis to create distinction between it and the Monk. The Kensei is still under a lot of consideration from me... Some OA classes will not need creating as the Savage Pathfinder classes already cover them - Ninja are Assassins, etc.

Likewise I'll be doing a pass over the Al-Qadim classes. Pretty sure the Sha'ir will get its own Class Edge. The others, we'll see.

Setting Rules -

I modified the Heavy* spellcasting modifier to be a Legendary quality, *because* I use the Heavy modifier rules as the Savage Rifts rule. This effectively lets me scale Pathfinder straight into Rift's level of power at Legendary (slightly earlier for some classes).

I also play that without the 4-wound limit. This is a modern D&Dism which I don't like, where it's exceedingly difficult to die. Dead is dead. Between the established rules and Bennies, PC's should have these things factored in before going into combat.

Savage Pathfinder does a good job of getting back to the meat-and-potatoes style play I like: Casters are powerful, but *really* frail. Warriors are super-dangerous in combat. But because of the system, it allows you to dial it out/in to get as granular as you like without missing a beat.

I personally don't like mages being like 7 distinct classes. I just collapsed Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer & wizard into 1 customizable class called 'mage'.

If they had anything super unique, I made that into edges they could take as part of that class.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 29, 2021, 02:06:03 PM
I personally don't like mages being like 7 distinct classes. I just collapsed Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer & wizard into 1 customizable class called 'mage'.

If they had anything super unique, I made that into edges they could take as part of that class.

Well the beauty of SWADE is you can simply let any PC ad-hoc it without a Class at all. It's been interesting trying to get my D&D players to wrap their heads around that fact. A Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Bard could be replicated with specific Edge choices without necessarily being a "class".

All those old debates about "What is a Paladin?" - is it's a militant Cleric? Is it a Holy Fighter? blah blah blah - starts to evaporate when you realize in Savage Worlds, you can pick your skills, and "special abilities" and call yourself whatever the fuck you want and whoop ass exactly as you like to do it.

What is the functional difference between a Cleric with high Fighting and a Warrior with Arcane Background: Divine Magic that picks up the Champion Edge - and both join a group and call themselves Paladins? Then you have someone with a Paladin Class Edge fighting right next to them - all doing it differently yet very similar in theme only.

Quote from: tenbones on September 29, 2021, 02:15:16 PMWell the beauty of SWADE is you can simply let any PC ad-hoc it without a Class at all. It's been interesting trying to get my D&D players to wrap their heads around that fact. A Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Bard could be replicated with specific Edge choices without necessarily being a "class".

True, its a case of if you want those mechanical benefits you have to grab those classes. If you want the Clerics healing you have to get that edge. Which is why I split 'Channel Energy' into its own edge so its not directly attached to cleric.

One of my players insisted on making a character without a class edge just for funzies, so this went over pretty well.

yeah that's what I love about it - you can skin that cat all day long.

Quote from: tenbones on September 29, 2021, 02:19:28 PM
yeah that's what I love about it - you can skin that cat all day long.

To me this has told me what I need to be most important out of a system:
Its core mechanics & advancement system.

All that other stuff is secondary. If the core is good, I can tweek good results out of it.

After reading up on Savage worlds and listening to Brother tenbones preach the word of Savage.   I am a new convert to all things Savage!  Your sermon was just the thing I needed to finally kick the PF2e to the curb and my next campaign will be set in Savage Worlds Pathfinder (minus the kitchen sink setting!).

Thanks again Brother tenbones for saving me!



No really I did get the SWPF (late backer) so I got the PDF's and printed out everything but the setting

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on September 29, 2021, 01:08:08 PM
Me....A modded (300+ page behemoth) version of it. Message me for PDFs if your interested.

Im using it to run a the Adventure 'Zietgiest' made for 4e, PF, and 5e, and importing some 4e elements so it would run better (like item rarities and rituals).
Pretty cool so far. I have implimented all of Cyrils supplements & some other ones.

What I liked was that players can still feel cool without feeling like they can do everything. My PCs actually purchased some potions for once and used the favor system to assist them because before in regular PF they could just do everything themselves and buckets of resources meant that healing was trivial.

Edit: I would say the system needs a somewhat experienced GM. Bennies are your PCs HP effectively (more like second chances) and your in control of handing them out (beyond a baseline). In that sense you very directly control your PCs longevity.

Are you offering to share the pdf? Or am I reading it wrong?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on September 29, 2021, 03:14:28 PMAre you offering to share the pdf? Or am I reading it wrong?

Yup. With a message.

Quote from: Krugus on September 29, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
After reading up on Savage worlds and listening to Brother tenbones preach the word of Savage.   I am a new convert to all things Savage!  Your sermon was just the thing I needed to finally kick the PF2e to the curb and my next campaign will be set in Savage Worlds Pathfinder (minus the kitchen sink setting!).

Thanks again Brother tenbones for saving me!



No really I did get the SWPF (late backer) so I got the PDF's and printed out everything but the setting

My pleasure! May the Savage stay strong in you.

While there are mechanics that are adjacent to the core in SWADE, most of this stuff is just optional. There is very little outside of the normal task resolution that glues the system together. This is what makes it extremely powerful in the hands of a confident GM.

A casual glance across the line and across editions shows you the multitude of ways of doing magic, doing combat, etc. and the best part of it all is that it's ALL useful. I still use stuff from the previous editions and tweak them to fit the new SWADE conceits. It's trivial work at best.

So unlike D&D, specifically, you can have your cake and eat it too. And if something doesn't work as you want it too, it usually takes a tweak to get it where you want it without fear of damaging any other downstream systems. Most things plug into a few mechanics. You can run it "hardcore" and make it grim and gritty, you can use narrative mechanics (if you're into that kinda stuff) - it scales insanely well. And at the center of it all is the same Task Resolution mechanic.

The more I throw at it, the more it impresses me.