Quote from: Nexus;678671Genre doesn't have to be staightjacket; it can be starting point, a launch platform for new ideas.

Genre certainly does not have to be so rigid, but as soon as you challenge genre you'll have critics who say you've betrayed some fundamental notion. To break structure turns into being quarrelsome.

I think the categorisation of genre and the fortification of rigid genre frameworks is more systematic of academia than the Internet. The point is - they can be hard to break, or to justify breaking, especially among RPG-enthusiasts who are so painfully vague and non-descriptive about their concerns. "Guns in D&D feels weird" / "Superheroes should have magic" / "Of course there are elves, it's a fantasy setting" (anon)

But - by all means, go ahead: challenge genre, weather the blows of the over-thinkers, and pioneer.

//Panjumanju

Quote from: Panjumanju;678697Genre certainly does not have to be so rigid, but as soon as you challenge genre you'll have critics who say you've betrayed some fundamental notion. To break structure turns into being quarrelsome.

I think the categorisation of genre and the fortification of rigid genre frameworks is more systematic of academia than the Internet. The point is - they can be hard to break, or to justify breaking, especially among RPG-enthusiasts who are so painfully vague and non-descriptive about their concerns. "Guns in D&D feels weird" / "Superheroes should have magic" / "Of course there are elves, it's a fantasy setting" (anon)

But - by all means, go ahead: challenge genre, weather the blows of the over-thinkers, and pioneer.

//Panjumanju

Well, everyone is going to have preferences and not every variation is going to appeal to everyone or even be a generally good idea just because its new. But that's no reason not to try new things. You're never going to please everyone.

Quote from: Nexus;678671Genre doesn't have to be staightjacket; it can be starting point, a launch platform for new ideas.

Much like I prefer games with a certain level of "crunch," because sometimes being too loose means I don't know where to proceed.

JG

Quote from: Panjumanju;678697Genre certainly does not have to be so rigid, but as soon as you challenge genre you'll have critics who say you've betrayed some fundamental notion. To break structure turns into being quarrelsome.

Fuck 'em.

Some of the best worlds start out making no sense.

Quote from: RPGPundit;679567Some of the best worlds start out making no sense.

Like Synnibar!

JG

Quote from: Panjumanju;678697Genre certainly does not have to be so rigid, but as soon as you challenge genre you'll have critics who say you've betrayed some fundamental notion. To break structure turns into being quarrelsome.

I think the categorisation of genre and the fortification of rigid genre frameworks is more systematic of academia than the Internet. The point is - they can be hard to break, or to justify breaking, especially among RPG-enthusiasts who are so painfully vague and non-descriptive about their concerns. "Guns in D&D feels weird" / "Superheroes should have magic" / "Of course there are elves, it's a fantasy setting" (anon)

It has been my experience that it is as you say above: "as soon as you challenge genre you'll have critics who say you've betrayed some fundamental notion."

I don't have a real problem with genre, if it is used to classify in an after-the-fact fashion (where it simply describes some work).

It is when it becomes presciptive, and starts trying to tell us what should be, or should not be, in a given work that I start having problems with genre.

Quote from: Akrasia;678608For most GMs (and authors), it is, I think, most prudent simply to start with a general framework, and flesh it out as necessary, rather than writing an elaborate cosmology, a timeline for 9000 years, etc. -- ~99% of which will never be known by or affect the characters.

Of course, it is hard to know for sure, in advance, what will affect the characters. That is especially true if they suddenly go off in some strange direction.

There are various options when that happens, including stopping the game until time is taken to flesh out a new area, or simply winging it. But a common option is to try to limit the actions of the PCs.

I believe that this can be one factor that leads to railroading. Imagine that a GM creates a narrow area that he has specifically fleshed out (a place where he intends the PCs to go). This situation may create a motivation on the part of some GMs  to work pretty hard to keep the PCs along the intended pathway.

Quote from: Akrasia;678608I have some sympathy with the Tolkien-esque wold building approach, as I used to engage in it myself (up until about a decade ago).  I stopped because I just didn't have the time or energy anymore, and, perhaps more significantly, I was the only one who really appreciated all that detail.

I would suggest that the detail might be appreciated in some subliminal ways which may not be all obvious, but might be still significant.

Quote from: warp9;679708It is when it becomes presciptive, and starts trying to tell us what should be, or should not be, in a given work that I start having problems with genre.

Particularly when it's a Platte River-shallow* understanding of the genre


* 'The Platte River - a mile wide and an inch deep. Too wet to plow, too dry to drink.' - an Old West aphorism

Quote from: warp9;679709Of course, it is hard to know for sure, in advance, what will affect the characters. That is especially true if they suddenly go off in some strange direction.

There are various options when that happens, including stopping the game until time is taken to flesh out a new area, or simply winging it. But a common option is to try to limit the actions of the PCs.

I believe that this can be one factor that leads to railroading. Imagine that a GM creates a narrow area that he has specifically fleshed out (a place where he intends the PCs to go). This situation may create a motivation on the part of some GMs  to work pretty hard to keep the PCs along the intended pathway.



I would suggest that the detail might be appreciated in some subliminal ways which may not be all obvious, but might be still significant.

I do speak about this often.

As GMs, we all have to wing a certain amount.  Nature of the game.
But the more that is cement, the more stuff the GM has to make the other stuff work and see more realistic and seemingly pre-done.

Quote from: James Gillen;679688Like Synnibar!

JG

I was thinking more of my own DCC campaign world, which at first appeared ridiculous but as we've gone on has ended up being the way it is for a reason.
Mystara is another one of these.

In fact, this whole OP proposition is anti-gonzo.

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