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Author Topic: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games  (Read 2006 times)

Gog to Magog

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I'm a huge fan of fighting games and my holy grail game is to run a campaign set in a combined Street Fighter/King of Fighters setting but, alas, only one of my IRL friends is into fighting games as much as I am...

Anyway, I saw Fight! and Fight! 2nd Edition (seriously those are terrible names and Divine Madness Press should have REALLY considered something more search-friendly) and delved into them. I understand the system and all but I haven't had a chance to do much with it other than theory-craft with it. To me the system seems...neat but WAY too crunchy and slow which is the same problem I tend to have with the Street Fighter Storyteller system.

Wasn't sure if anyone had any experience with either edition of Fight! and might be able to tell me if it's as crunchy as it looks or if it's faster in practice. I guess I'd ask the same thing about the Street Fighter storytelling game. Am I wrong and these actually can play quick? I've always REALLY wanted a good, non-crunchy AF tabletop game system for fighting game combat because it might be easier to convince people to give it a try
He said only: "Men shall die for this". He meant the words.

RebelSky

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2022, 04:19:17 AM »
Fight! Is crunchy but it's default structure is to simulate what we see in fighting video games.

Fight 2e has 3 different combat systems. Only 1 of them really goes into the minutia of the 1-on-1 technical duel fight common in fighting games. In this dueling combat system, each round when both participants reveal their maneuvers, the maneuvers are compared to each other. Some of the minutia of them is calculated, and then whoever is faster can get their move off.

What the designer pulls off with all the technical minutia is it simulates the Frame Data in fighting games, which is really impressive IMHO.

Making special moves can take a lot of time but the writer helps with that because he just put out a Fight 2e Moveslist book on drivethru which has about 400 premade moves in it, so with this book making a character can take as little as ten minutes.

The other 2 combat systems are easier. One is very narrative and is used for when your fighter is fighting off groups of goons and thugs. The other is aimed at being more dramatic between fighters but my book is in the other room so I can't remember exactly how it goes.

I can see using games like BESM 4e, Savage Worlds with the new Super Powers Companion book, Ascendant, Gurps, Hero System, or even Heroes Unlimited with the Ninjas & Superspies book to do a campaign set in the world's we often see in fighting games.

I don't know what Street Fighter the Storytelling Game is like.

RebelSky

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2022, 04:34:38 AM »
More on Fight 2e's combat systems.

System 1 - The Duel. Most technical as described above. Can take some time while learning the intricacies of how maneuvers work. Only really intended for the Tournament Duel.

System 2 - Thug Thrashing. Used anytime a Fighter engages with non-fighters, usually groups of thugs. Not as technical as above.

System 3 - Dramatic Combat. This is aimed at changing system 1 into being a more cinematic game.

All use the basic combat round structure, but uses it in different ways and to different degrees of tech minutia. There is also an extensive example of each system in the book.

I really like it. It's one of the better rpgs for small groups.

Gog to Magog

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2022, 05:45:46 AM »
I was unaware of the move list book that had come out! I am going to have to pick that up! That could actually REALLY help
He said only: "Men shall die for this". He meant the words.

tenbones

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2022, 10:14:41 AM »
You've got me piqued!!!

How do these mechanics work? I'm ginormous fan of fighting games and beat'em ups. What's the stats and task-resolution like?

RebelSky

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 03:47:32 PM »
Here's an example of a Fight 2e character (from the book)

Shine Holly(name)

Level: One {Fighter characters gain Glory to level up.}
Life Bar: 30

(insert background character information here)

Traits (everything is classified as a Trait except for Special Moves. Traits are categorized into -
-- Basic Qualities (core Attributes)
-- Qualities, Weaknesses, and Quirks (think like World of Darkness Merits and Flaws)
-- Skills (Two kinds of Skills - Combat and Narrative Skills)

Basic Qualities

Strength: -1 {modifies physical damage in combat}
Speed: 2 (initiative) {reaction time; modifies Initiative. Player can choose for Speed to modify either/or Initiative and/or Control}
Stamina:  0 {ability to absorb damage; high Stamina reduces damage received from attacks}

Initiative: 2 {increases die steps in combat when rolling initiative}
Control: 0 {would do the same; Control represents how difficult a move or Combo the character can perform during the turn. Thematically also represents coolness during combat.}

Qualities

Attractive
Distracting
Mobility
Wealthy

Weaknesses

Light {a Weakness that makes it where she takes more damage from attacks that Juggle}

Quirks

Reckless
Secret

Combat Skills

Defense: 3 {default mode of defending self. Measures ability to BLOCK attacks}
Ki: 1 {only necessary for those characters with special moves with the Ranged Element; can only be taken during character creation. Some character may rename this to something like Gadgetry for thematic purposes based on power source of special move}
Combo: 2 {ability for fighter to string attacks together, must be at least level 2 to do combos}
Tactics: 0 {an alternative defense. Measures ability to know how to best respond in any given combat situation and to know precise timing to make use of opportunities}
Evasion: 0 {an alternative defense. Measures ability to dodge, sidestep, and leap out of the way of attacks.}

Narrative Skills 

Agility: 1
Athletics: 2
Fast Reflexes: 1
High Society: 2
Presence: 3
Property Damage: 1
Realize Potential: 1
Sense Ki: 2
Thug Thrashing: 1
Wealth: 3
Zen State: 1

Shine Holly's Special Moves

Azure Sky (L3) [level of move]

Shine leaps gracefully in the air, arches her back as if she were going to dive into the water, and come down on her opponent with a glowing blue fist:

Move Elements
-- Aerial {used from the air; this Element only apply if its the first of a Combo.}
-- Increased Damage {does more damage}
-- Mobile {adds Mobile; allows fighter to travel quickly, 2 Ranges of Movement before attacking for a cost of 1 FS [Fighting Spirit], just like a jumping Basic Mobile move}

Accuracy: +0
Damage: 1d6

Cyan Strike (L3)

Shine twirls around rapidly and strikes with three spinning backhand strikes, blue sparks flying off of her as she spins.

Move Elements
-- Fast Recovery (1) {if this move hits, the fighter gets a one die size bonus on following turn that can be applied to either Initiative or Control}
-- Increased Knockback {Only does knockback if last move in a combo; knocks defender back 2 Ranges rather than just 1}
-- Priority {Breaks ties in case of simultaneous Initiative; can also be used for the Priority Defense Response.}
-- Reversal {Allows fighter to perform a reversal if Knocked Down; when part of a Combo, only the Accuracy modifier of the first move i the combo applies.}

Accuracy: +0
Damage: 1d4

Sapphire Flash (L3)

Shine steps forward with blinding quickness. There is a sudden bright blue flash that obscures vision and she trikes her opponent with a driving thrust punch.

Move Elements
-- Increased Accuracy (3) {Adds +1 per application of Accuracy to the Move's Accuracy; each application of the elements costs 3 special move build points}
-- Increased Damage {Increases base damage of Move up a die step; then base damage is modified by the fighters Strength Quality; does a minimum of 2 damage}

Accuracy:+1
Damage: 1d6 (2) {2 represents minimum damage}

All Fighters have the traditional Basic Actions as well.

Basic Move
Dash/Back Dashes/Air Dash
Jumps/Double Jumps
Sweeps
Basic Taunts
Punches/Kicks
Breakfalls/Tech rolls (GM Option if GM is using them)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 04:00:08 PM by RebelSky »

Gog to Magog

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2022, 07:48:28 AM »
RebelSky has done a great job with that write-up.

Moves are the meat & potatoes of the game and are made up from a huge list of different elements that let you craft them. It's good stuff but, to me, it seems like it becomes really slow with a lot of rolling being done. That is my major concern with it but, I suppose, in a duel it's not a big deal as it becomes tactical. That would work well for really getting someone into the nitty gritty of the fight but seems like it would be poor with multiple fighters involved. Much better for 1 v 1.
He said only: "Men shall die for this". He meant the words.

RebelSky

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2022, 02:10:53 PM »
Fight (both editions work the same in this regard) has two dice systems... Combat and Non-Combat/Narrative.

Narrative is simple - Roll 1d10 + Skill rank + modifiers and try to equal or exceed Target Number. Pretty traditional.

Combat is much more... 'Technical' is the word I'll use. At first it seems like it's quite complicated but the writer has gone way out of his way in 2e to really explain the exact sequence of how to play out Fights in this game. After a while, however, these steps just blend into a seemless whole and combats can become quick.

Just like a real fighting game, this rpg has a learning curve to it.

Combat Assumptions in Fight - Fight Tournament Rules assume you're playing on a Grid, either a straight line of squares ala Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, or a Grid that's either 5 x 5 or 7 x 7 that has an Arena with Walls and/or Knock Offs, ala Soul Calibur. So any references to Ranges and Moving means you're moving your Fighter on the Grid, and each square on the Grid is the distance of Range between the two Fighter.

And yes, you can have some Arena's have Environmental Hazards if you wish. Makes things more interesting. ;) 

The basic sequence of the Core Combat System, hereby I'll call the Tournament Rules, goes as follows:

1. Start of Turn

Here you can spend Fighting Spirit and roll Initiative and Control. Each Fighter has a base die for both Initiative and Control, based on if the fighter has any modifiers from his or her Speed Quality.

-- Shine Holly would roll a 1d10 for Initiative and 1d6 for Control.

-- Initiative is reaction.
-- Control is what determines how powerful of a Move you can pull off in the combat round. You can only pull off a Special Move if the Special Move's Level is equal to or less the Control result.
-- Fighting Spirit is a mechanic that allows the player to boost various things in a combat round, limited to the fighters Power Level per expenditure. Shine Holly is PL 1 and has 10 Fighting Spirit.
-- Fight uses all the regular polyhedral dice in its combat system. Any time you see a reference to either increase/stepping up or decrease/stepping down a die, it means going up or down the die steps buy that amount. Increasing a 1d4 means going up to a 1d6. Decreasing a 1d10 means going down to a 1d8, for examples.

2. In Order of Initiative... On Your Turn you can:

The Basics -

Move and/or Attack
Hold Initiative
Stand Up from Knockdown
Recover from being Stunned
Total Defense (forfeit action to increase all Defense totals by +1 for the Turn)

Moving -

A Fighter can Move from 0 to 3 Ranges in a combat turn. Moving costs 1 FS extra if the Fighter suffered a Hit Stun in the Turn. There is also a lot of Keywords this game uses which I won't go into here, but suffice to say that how much you Move can limit what kind of actions you can do in the turn.

There are also a few nuances and options players have in a fight that I won't fully detail here as that is part of the learning curve of the game (much like fighting games).

On the Grid, the Ranges of Distance between fighters represents the following:

Range 0 is Grappling Range
Range 1 is Melee Punch and Kick Range
Range 2+ is outside Melee Range.

3. When Attacking

Fighter must have the Control to use an Offensive move.
If using a Combo, the Fighter must define the full Combo.
Attacker calculates Accuracy bonus and can declare if fighting with Full Offense or not. Full Offense can leave  you open for retaliation later if you should fail to hit.
Defender chooses Defense, Evasion, or Tactics combat skill. Can declare Full Defense.
-- Defender calculates Defense Total and adds FS (Fighting Spirit) to Defense Total.
Attacker can spend FS on Accuracy
Attacker Rolls to Hit.

-- Attacker Rolls 1d6 + all applicable Accuracy modifiers to hit. You'll note that all of her Special Moves above have her base Accuracy already calculated in it. If the Accuracy Attack roll is equal to or exceeds the Defender's Defense Total, the attack hits. 

4a. If Attack Hits

Roll damage for Move/Combo.
-- Damage is subtracted from the Fighter's Life Bar.
Determine if Defender suffers Hit Stun (unless Knocked Down, Stunned, or already suffered Hit Stun this turn).
-- This can happen only once per turn per Defender. Hit Stun reduces the Defender's Control for the Turn. If hit, the Defender's Control is either reduced by 4 or half (round down), whichever results in a lower result. This can cause the Defender's Control to be reduced to 0. If this happens, the fighter loses his action for the turn (if he has not acted yet).
Defender knocked back 1 Range.
If applicable, Defender is Knocked Down.
-- Only if the Attacker is using a Move that has the Knock Down Element.
On-Hit and Always Aftereffects activate.
If Defender is Knocked Down, Attacker can Move 1 Range.
Rolled damage is compared to Defenders Stun Threshold.
-- Fighter's Stun Threshold is equal to Power Level +4.
-- If the Fighter takes Life Bar damage Greater Than his Stun Threshold in a Single Turn (from any number of attacks), the Fighter is Stunned. This is where you say a prayer and realize you're borked.
-- Special Moves without the Stun keyword do NOT add its damage when calculating whether the total damage in a turn exceeds the Stun Threshold.

When Stunned
-- First, kiss your ass goodbye.
-- Fighter loses his next two actions. Must use next action to Recover, as well as his action on the following turn. If already acted in current turn, must uses next two turns of actions to Recover.
-- Can't spend FS to his Defense Total.
-- Can't use Evasion or Tactics skill to avoid attacks.
-- Defense Skill is halved (rounded down).
-- Can still be attacked, but if the Stunned character gets attacked and hit then he immediately Recovers from being Stunned after being hit once and is immune to being Stunned again until after he Recovers.
-- Initiative die decreased by one step in the following round after he Recovers.
-- It's possible that both Fighters can be Stunned in a Simultaneous Initiative situation.
-- Realize that it sucks being Stunned, much like in the video game.

4b. When an Attack Misses

On-Miss Aftereffects activate.
An Evading Defender can choose to Move 2 Ranges or gain a +2 Accuracy on his next attack.
Depending on Range, the Defender's Control, and the Defense used, a Defensive Response may be used. (Defensive Response is a Special Move Element)
If no Defensive Response is used, Always Aftereffects activate for the move that missed.

5. After Move/Combo has been Resolved

Passing or After Mobile Moves: If the fighter hasn't been hit by a Defensive Response, Reaction Attack, or an opponent Holding Initiative, the Fighter may Move.

Calculate Glory if appropriate. You gain Glory primarily in Combats, and Glory is the Experience Points system of the game.

6. After everyone has Acted

If applicable, everyone earns Super Energy.
Roll Time Roll. Either 1d6 for Duels, or 1d8 for Multiple Fighters. Fighters can spend FS on this roll to increase or decrease the Time Roll.
Describe the visuals of the combat round.

----

The combat chapter goes into extensive detail and uses many examples to explain all of the above. Some of the above sequence steps have sub-steps further extrapolated in this chapter. This game also has other kinds of Moves, like Utility Moves and Reaction Attacks, and has the following Non-Attack Actions: Refocus, Power Up, and Await Opening.

Then you can add in Environmental Hazards if you wish to simulate having more interesting Arenas. Arena's can have Walls and Ring-Outs as well. Being stuck in a Corner sucks just as much as it does in fighting games. Just saying.

And you can do Team Combat, including Tag Tournaments and if you just want a chaotic mish-mash of awesome, do a total Free-For All.

---

Thug Thrashing Combat -

This combat is similar to the above but it's aimed at when your Fighter is fighting against a weak-ass group mob of wannabes that attack you en masse.

Basically, the Thugs are a group of individuals that attack as a single group and in the combat system the Thug groups count as a single Fighter. The game provides a Thug Building system.

Some tweaks to the above combat system is that Fighters can gain bonus actions per combat turn if the character has ranks in the Thug Thrashing Skill. For every rank the Fighter gets one extra action per turn. Shine Holly would then get 2 actions per turn when fighting Thugs.

This game does a really neat job making the Player Character's feel like badasses when fighting against groups of Thugs.

----

Dramatic Combat

The other combat sub-system in Fight 2e.

This combat system changes the emulation of what we see in fighting games in favor of dramatic actions more in line with action we see in manga and anime. It can be used as a replacement of the Tournament System or for fights in which the excitement of the cinematic story demands a higher level of description (for the drama of course).

In a nutshell, it replaces some of the Tournament Rules sequence with a system of Actions that Fighters can use by spending Action Points. Each Action Point then allows the Fighter to do different things in a combat turn.

This system puts more emphasis on Basic Moves than Special Moves, so Control isn't rolled. Initiative is based on Speed and if the Fighter has a Control bonus, it modifies Initiative in this combat system. Combo's are also not used in this system.

There are other tweaks to how the different Defensive Skills work and many of the Tournament Rules options are different.

It's basically a different combat system and not intended to be intermixed with the Tournament Rules but Dramatic Combat doesn't make any sense unless you learn the Tournament Rules. It's assumed you have already learned the T Rules.

----

I think this game is fantastic, especially from a design point. The designer obviously loves this genre and made a game that really emulates it. Even the fucking learning curve of fighting games. Definitely a game where the better a player learns the game the more they will roll over newbs who think they can play the game and don't understand the nuances of the game.

Fight 2e is THE Fighting Game rpg for fighting game fans. And that Moves list book is a lifesaver. Making Special Moves can take a while at first, considering that this game has over 100 Move Elements and Liabilities to pick from when building Special Moves. 

drkrash

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Re: Fight! 2nd Edition/SF: Storyteller - Fighting game tabletop games
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2022, 01:11:29 PM »
Don't know how I missed this thread.  Hope I'm not violating any necro laws here.  If anyone cares, I'm happy to answer questions or talk about what is going on with the game now.