Anti-5e Old-Schoolers: Why not just Admit it?

RPGPundit · June 07, 2014, 12:57:33 PM

As I've posted on my blog, if the latest news about the new D&D Basic and the D&D Starter set don't end up making you admit that the new D&D is making a sufficient old-school effort, then you never ever actually could have been convinced (short of maybe Wizards announcing they're scrapping 5e entirely and will now only release the OD&D booklets in their original form, complete with a rare reproduction of one of Gary Gygax's shopping lists from 1973 so that grognards can speculate as to whether the presence of 'swiss cheese', 'baby wipes' and 'beer' on the list may have in some way influenced the origins of the game).

RPGPundit

dragoner · June 07, 2014, 12:59:23 PM

Because then they would have nothing to complain about.

Marleycat · June 07, 2014, 01:18:39 PM

Quote from: dragoner;756283Because then they would have nothing to complain about.

Pretty much. Heck you know just about any veteran player of Dnd or some variation of it will at least give it a try anyhow.

David Johansen · June 07, 2014, 01:26:29 PM

hmmm, I've actually warmed to it a bit. A soft cover print copy of the basic rules for under $30 would carry me a lot farther than that.

But I'm not really an old schooler, I just dislike second - fourth more than I dislike OD&D and 1e. If they hadn't made the races into classes I'd even like BXCMI.

Still, I'll have to see what they've actually done with the rules. I expect there's enough modernization twaddle in there that I'll hate it. They got rid of hit dice last I heard, frankly, if they have a minion rule and got rid of hit dice I'll have to find Mearls and slap him personally because hit dice were already a minion rule.

Zachary The First · June 07, 2014, 01:29:47 PM

I absolutely detested what WotC did in and around 4e. But man, it seems like they are really trying to appeal to gamers old and new with 5e.

I'm in a position where I have an absolute ton of games I still need/want to run, and that's just in the fantasy genre, including Castles & Crusades and Palladium Fantasy. But I'm likely to at least check out 5e Basic, if nothing else, to see what it's all about, and if there's anything of note to add to my game and campaign.

dragoner · June 07, 2014, 01:29:55 PM

Quote from: Marleycat;756292Pretty much. Heck you know just about any veteran player of Dnd or some variation of it will at least give it a try anyhow.

Yeah. Mostly it is just watching the "rilly big show" of 5e's release, you don't see that everyday. Maybe it is only child syndrome, feeling you have a right to complain; I was raised by the Borg Collective, my real name is 3 of 5. Complaining was a punishable offense.

JeremyR · June 07, 2014, 01:39:44 PM

Er, didn't 4e have a starter boxed set? So does Pathfinder. I don't see the big deal or why one is "old school"

Also, I have never actually played, read, or even seen B10, so it being used for the basic set has zero bearing on my opinion of it.

OTOH, I think bounded accuracy is dumb. You give monsters ton of hit points and then lower their armor class so you hit them all the time? And this single design idea makes 5e stuff largely incompatible with previous editions.

Better than 4e, though.

Scott Anderson · June 07, 2014, 01:47:59 PM

Okay. I admit it. I'm totally against something I have no direct knowledge of.

What?

jeff37923 · June 07, 2014, 02:00:23 PM

I dunno. I'm having a tough time hating something that isn't even out yet. It is far easier to be annoyed by the nitwits who have already decided who is and who isn't a hater based on the voices in their head.

ggroy · June 07, 2014, 02:00:31 PM

My main resistance to 5E is primarily to avoid jumping onto a new splatbook treadmill. It is largely to avoid wasting more time and money on being a "compulsive completionist" of 5E books.

In hindsight, I'm glad I was completely clueless and away on a long hiatus during the time when 3E and the d20 glut was in full force.

thedungeondelver · June 07, 2014, 02:03:28 PM

"Things have quieted down...I painted myself into a corner with a pointless argument that had no merit, after I positioned myself as some kind of '5e guru' because I was a paid 'consultant'...and now the noise has died down and nobody's giving me attention any more. What to do...what to do...

Oh!

I know!

I'll gin up controversy where there is none! Fifth edition seems to be have a broad, medium-depth appeal, and they're making good faith efforts, so I'll leap into my forum and try to drum up some nastyness where none exists.

Take that grognards!"

Akrasia · June 07, 2014, 02:29:43 PM

Quote from: thedungeondelver;756310"Things have quieted down...I painted myself into a corner with a pointless argument that had no merit, after I positioned myself as some kind of '5e guru' because I was a paid 'consultant'...and now the noise has died down and nobody's giving me attention any more. What to do...what to do...

Oh!

I know!

I'll gin up controversy where there is none! Fifth edition seems to be have a broad, medium-depth appeal, and they're making good faith efforts, so I'll leap into my forum and try to drum up some nastyness where none exists.

Take that grognards!"

:hatsoff:

Warthur · June 07, 2014, 02:38:11 PM

Quote from: ggroy;756309My main resistance to 5E is primarily to avoid jumping onto a new splatbook treadmill. It is largely to avoid wasting more time and money on being a "compulsive completionist" of 5E books.

In hindsight, I'm glad I was completely clueless and away on a long hiatus during the time when 3E and the d20 glut was in full force.

To be fair to 5E, though, it sounds like the current plan is specifically to break the treadmill. You'll still get completists but you won't get the same push to be a completist from Wizards.

Emperor Norton · June 07, 2014, 02:39:41 PM

Quote from: JeremyR;756303OTOH, I think bounded accuracy is dumb. You give monsters ton of hit points and then lower their armor class so you hit them all the time?

... That pretty much has nothing to do with what bounded accuracy is.

ggroy · June 07, 2014, 03:14:07 PM

Quote from: Warthur;756321To be fair to 5E, though, it sounds like the current plan is specifically to break the treadmill. You'll still get completists but you won't get the same push to be a completist from Wizards.

I'll be taking a wait-and-see approach over the next year or so.

I hope most of the "3pp glut" and WotC proliferation will be in the form of digital-only content (whether DDI type of services and/or pdfs), and not as published paper books.

In hindsight, the 4E splatbook treadmill was actually somewhat manageable. Mostly one or two WotC books per month, and the occasional module from Goodman. (Most of the other 3pp companies dropped out of the 4E market relatively quickly, such as Mongoose, XRP, etc ... with Goodman eventually exiting too).