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Author Topic: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons  (Read 11055 times)

GeekyBugle

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Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« on: September 17, 2022, 11:23:05 AM »
As most around here know I'm in the camp of "WotC is a detriment to the hobby", so I'm not sharing this to defend them, I'm sharing this as yet another example of why you NEVER BEND THE KNEE TO THE WOKE.

https://archive.is/PdnwY
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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FingerRod

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2022, 11:52:12 AM »
The activist writing it was pretty thoroughly taken apart in the comments section. Over time since Gizmodo is a leftist shithole, the stars next to the comments could climb back into the writer’s favor, but for now, reasonable heads are prevailing.

It is a fact. If you see orc and think black person, YOU are the racist. The thought would never occur to a non-racist.

And If you are writing these types of things for clicks and money, then you are being paid to be racist.

VisionStorm

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2022, 12:32:17 PM »
Quote
“Dungeons & Dragons will continue to fail unless—or until—they fundamentally change their approach to race,” said tabletop RPG designer Connie Chang.

Fail at what? Being the #1, greatest selling and most recognizable TTRPG of all time, specially now more than ever? Words either mean something or they don't, and these people are clearly pulling their words right out of their ass to paint their own imaginary version of reality, the way they want it to be. The only time D&D has ever even remotely approached the realm of being a "failure" was when it shot itself in the foot during the 4e era, and maybe briefly in the 90s when Vampire gained popularity, and even then it was still #2. So not a failure even then, just not #1.

This is all imaginary nonsense baked for clickbait outrage with no basis in reality but their own delusions.

By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I do think that there are mechanical issues with tying ability bonuses to Background specifically, though, since it incentivizes picking backgrounds with bonuses that match your class's key ability, or going with the custom Background option, which defeats the point of tying them to background. They should just give everyone a +2 bonus to one or two abilities of choice and leave it at that, or maybe make players pick the bonuses from either race, class and background, like I did when trying it out in my own game.

But other than that I prefer the new treatment for races—including the addition of Orcs as a standard race—and it's what I'd use from now on.

"EDIT/PS: Except for Ardlings. I absolutely hate that stupid furry-angel concept they pulled out of nowhere. It's like they didn't know WTF to do with Aasimar, so lets just make them furries. Cuz furries have a lot to do with angels, amirite?

I'd just make them Aasimar that look like angels and drop that stupid "Ardling" name and concept. You don't need to make angels furries to make them cool, you just need to make them angels.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 12:40:32 PM by VisionStorm »

hedgehobbit

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2022, 12:45:42 PM »
The most interesting part of the article is when they point to female strength limits as the ground zero of this line of thinking. The argument I've seen as to why female characters shouldn't be penalized is because they are "exceptional" and normal statistical deviation don't apply. This same argument can be made to say that your elf is exceptional so normal ability score modifiers shouldn't apply either.

This is a rare case where the SJWs are the ones being consistent.

Slambo

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2022, 01:12:17 PM »
Quote
“Dungeons & Dragons will continue to fail unless—or until—they fundamentally change their approach to race,” said tabletop RPG designer Connie Chang.

Fail at what? Being the #1, greatest selling and most recognizable TTRPG of all time, specially now more than ever? Words either mean something or they don't, and these people are clearly pulling their words right out of their ass to paint their own imaginary version of reality, the way they want it to be. The only time D&D has ever even remotely approached the realm of being a "failure" was when it shot itself in the foot during the 4e era, and maybe briefly in the 90s when Vampire gained popularity, and even then it was still #2. So not a failure even then, just not #1.

This is all imaginary nonsense baked for clickbait outrage with no basis in reality but their own delusions.

By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I do think that there are mechanical issues with tying ability bonuses to Background specifically, though, since it incentivizes picking backgrounds with bonuses that match your class's key ability, or going with the custom Background option, which defeats the point of tying them to background. They should just give everyone a +2 bonus to one or two abilities of choice and leave it at that, or maybe make players pick the bonuses from either race, class and background, like I did when trying it out in my own game.

But other than that I prefer the new treatment for races—including the addition of Orcs as a standard race—and it's what I'd use from now on.

"EDIT/PS: Except for Ardlings. I absolutely hate that stupid furry-angel concept they pulled out of nowhere. It's like they didn't know WTF to do with Aasimar, so lets just make them furries. Cuz furries have a lot to do with angels, amirite?

I'd just make them Aasimar that look like angels and drop that stupid "Ardling" name and concept. You don't need to make angels furries to make them cool, you just need to make them angels.

Imo they ahould just remove the ability mods all together and add a few more points to their point buy/standard array, maybe just add +2 +1 to the pragraph on rolling for stats. I have no idea how someone could complain about that...they may find a way though.

Jam The MF

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2022, 02:01:06 PM »
Quote
“Dungeons & Dragons will continue to fail unless—or until—they fundamentally change their approach to race,” said tabletop RPG designer Connie Chang.

Fail at what? Being the #1, greatest selling and most recognizable TTRPG of all time, specially now more than ever? Words either mean something or they don't, and these people are clearly pulling their words right out of their ass to paint their own imaginary version of reality, the way they want it to be. The only time D&D has ever even remotely approached the realm of being a "failure" was when it shot itself in the foot during the 4e era, and maybe briefly in the 90s when Vampire gained popularity, and even then it was still #2. So not a failure even then, just not #1.

This is all imaginary nonsense baked for clickbait outrage with no basis in reality but their own delusions.

By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I do think that there are mechanical issues with tying ability bonuses to Background specifically, though, since it incentivizes picking backgrounds with bonuses that match your class's key ability, or going with the custom Background option, which defeats the point of tying them to background. They should just give everyone a +2 bonus to one or two abilities of choice and leave it at that, or maybe make players pick the bonuses from either race, class and background, like I did when trying it out in my own game.

But other than that I prefer the new treatment for races—including the addition of Orcs as a standard race—and it's what I'd use from now on.

"EDIT/PS: Except for Ardlings. I absolutely hate that stupid furry-angel concept they pulled out of nowhere. It's like they didn't know WTF to do with Aasimar, so lets just make them furries. Cuz furries have a lot to do with angels, amirite?

I'd just make them Aasimar that look like angels and drop that stupid "Ardling" name and concept. You don't need to make angels furries to make them cool, you just need to make them angels.

Imo they ahould just remove the ability mods all together and add a few more points to their point buy/standard array, maybe just add +2 +1 to the pragraph on rolling for stats. I have no idea how someone could complain about that...they may find a way though.


There are times, when i think the simple fix to all the angst about racial modifiers; is you get nothing.  Now you have the equality you desired.  You get nothing.  Just play your character, and stop whining about silly stuff.
I was Banned from RPG.net a long time ago, for Having Common Sense.

THE_Leopold

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2022, 02:40:08 PM »

Imo they ahould just remove the ability mods all together and add a few more points to their point buy/standard array, maybe just add +2 +1 to the pragraph on rolling for stats. I have no idea how someone could complain about that...they may find a way though.

They did that in the "Custom Lineage" from Tasha's.
 You get +2 to a stat, pick a feat or dark vision, small or medium, Select a language or 2, and then go pick your stats.

Call yourself whatever race you want it doesn't matter, you can be a tall halfling, short elf, human with fur,  whatever you want.  They stripped a race down to be anything you want all you gotta do is assign a few numbers and drop downs.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 03:13:11 PM by THE_Leopold »
NKL4Lyfe

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2022, 03:05:33 PM »
There are times, when i think the simple fix to all the angst about racial modifiers; is you get nothing.  Now you have the equality you desired.  You get nothing.  Just play your character, and stop whining about silly stuff.

Correct.  The only way to fix it is to remove all mechanical aspects of race.

hedgehobbit

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2022, 03:21:23 PM »
By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I see D&D as a game where you play whatever character you roll up rather than a game where you can build any character you want. If I wanted to play a game where building any character was the design goal, I'd play something like GURPS or Champions. Where cosmetic features of the character, such as race, are entirely optional.

So when the designers of D&D make these changes to races, background, ancestry, etc, they are just playing a shell game, moving points around, without really addressing the main issue. IOW, all these changes aren't making D&D  a better game, they are just turning D&D into a different type of game.

Slambo

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2022, 03:47:18 PM »
Quote
“Dungeons & Dragons will continue to fail unless—or until—they fundamentally change their approach to race,” said tabletop RPG designer Connie Chang.

Fail at what? Being the #1, greatest selling and most recognizable TTRPG of all time, specially now more than ever? Words either mean something or they don't, and these people are clearly pulling their words right out of their ass to paint their own imaginary version of reality, the way they want it to be. The only time D&D has ever even remotely approached the realm of being a "failure" was when it shot itself in the foot during the 4e era, and maybe briefly in the 90s when Vampire gained popularity, and even then it was still #2. So not a failure even then, just not #1.

This is all imaginary nonsense baked for clickbait outrage with no basis in reality but their own delusions.

By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I do think that there are mechanical issues with tying ability bonuses to Background specifically, though, since it incentivizes picking backgrounds with bonuses that match your class's key ability, or going with the custom Background option, which defeats the point of tying them to background. They should just give everyone a +2 bonus to one or two abilities of choice and leave it at that, or maybe make players pick the bonuses from either race, class and background, like I did when trying it out in my own game.

But other than that I prefer the new treatment for races—including the addition of Orcs as a standard race—and it's what I'd use from now on.

"EDIT/PS: Except for Ardlings. I absolutely hate that stupid furry-angel concept they pulled out of nowhere. It's like they didn't know WTF to do with Aasimar, so lets just make them furries. Cuz furries have a lot to do with angels, amirite?

I'd just make them Aasimar that look like angels and drop that stupid "Ardling" name and concept. You don't need to make angels furries to make them cool, you just need to make them angels.

Imo they ahould just remove the ability mods all together and add a few more points to their point buy/standard array, maybe just add +2 +1 to the pragraph on rolling for stats. I have no idea how someone could complain about that...they may find a way though.


There are times, when i think the simple fix to all the angst about racial modifiers; is you get nothing.  Now you have the equality you desired.  You get nothing.  Just play your character, and stop whining about silly stuff.

I agree with this too

Ratman_tf

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2022, 03:52:18 PM »
Quote
“Dungeons & Dragons will continue to fail unless—or until—they fundamentally change their approach to race,” said tabletop RPG designer Connie Chang.

Fail at what? Being the #1, greatest selling and most recognizable TTRPG of all time, specially now more than ever? Words either mean something or they don't, and these people are clearly pulling their words right out of their ass to paint their own imaginary version of reality, the way they want it to be. The only time D&D has ever even remotely approached the realm of being a "failure" was when it shot itself in the foot during the 4e era, and maybe briefly in the 90s when Vampire gained popularity, and even then it was still #2. So not a failure even then, just not #1.

This is all imaginary nonsense baked for clickbait outrage with no basis in reality but their own delusions.

By the way, I absolutely love all the changes to race they made in the Unearthed Arcana: Character Origins document*. I was hesitant about them at first, cuz I hate the rationale behind eliminating racial ability modifiers, but from a purely game mechanics perspective prefer they way it frees us to make any character build we want without being bound by racial modifiers as a limiting factor for viability.

I do think that there are mechanical issues with tying ability bonuses to Background specifically, though, since it incentivizes picking backgrounds with bonuses that match your class's key ability, or going with the custom Background option, which defeats the point of tying them to background. They should just give everyone a +2 bonus to one or two abilities of choice and leave it at that, or maybe make players pick the bonuses from either race, class and background, like I did when trying it out in my own game.

But other than that I prefer the new treatment for races—including the addition of Orcs as a standard race—and it's what I'd use from now on.

"EDIT/PS: Except for Ardlings. I absolutely hate that stupid furry-angel concept they pulled out of nowhere. It's like they didn't know WTF to do with Aasimar, so lets just make them furries. Cuz furries have a lot to do with angels, amirite?

I'd just make them Aasimar that look like angels and drop that stupid "Ardling" name and concept. You don't need to make angels furries to make them cool, you just need to make them angels.

Imo they ahould just remove the ability mods all together and add a few more points to their point buy/standard array, maybe just add +2 +1 to the pragraph on rolling for stats. I have no idea how someone could complain about that...they may find a way though.

Set stat arrays. Characters should be equitable cookie cutter cut outs.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2022, 03:55:23 PM »
As most around here know I'm in the camp of "WotC is a detriment to the hobby", so I'm not sharing this to defend them, I'm sharing this as yet another example of why you NEVER BEND THE KNEE TO THE WOKE.

https://archive.is/PdnwY

Yep. The goal is control. They don't give a shit about racism. It's a tool towards their social hell. If they can ever "fix" racism, they lose their power.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2022, 04:22:20 PM »
D&D doesn’t reinforce racist attitudes. We have research showing no connection. The article is full of shit. Again. https://areomagazine.com/2022/02/04/evil-orcs-accusations-of-racism-in-dungeons-and-dragons/


Brooding Paladin

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2022, 04:38:02 PM »
I saw this moron post her article link on Twitter.  I stopped reading it early on to preserve my IQ. 

I guess D&D is now so far removed from it's origins that the late arrivers or new wavers don't understand what the early appeals were to wanting to play a certain race and now in the interest of "everything needs to be fair" you can just buy what you want, claim it's lineage, and that's that.  So what's the differentiation if a Dragonborn can have all the same stuff as a Tiefling?  Why call it a Dragonborn at that point?  It just loses something altogether but it's their loss.  I'm not playing that game.

But it is a good reminder as GeekyBugle pointed out.  Never bend the knee as it will never be enough.  If you show weakness once they will co-opt your game right out from under you forcing it to become something you never intended.  But it serves WOTC right.

DocJones

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Re: Another hit piece against Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2022, 05:25:31 PM »
The article undermines itself when it is acknowledged that "race" in D&D is more accurately "species".
And then all the complaining about bioessentialism goes out the window.  Or rather it should if they had any sense,
because it's a theory that biology plays a significant role in determining human psychological behavior.
Of course it doesn't apply to other species like cats, dogs, horses or bears. 
Likewise no one has studied how biology affects the behaviors of elves, orcs, gnolls, dwarves, or hobgoblins.
Or whether the theory of magiaessentialism  (as proposed by Mordenkainen) is determinative to the behavior of fey creatures like elves, brownies, pixies and yes, orcs.