Exactly what criteria divides rules-lite, rules-medium and rules-heavy?

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373665Look, Stormbringer, I have argued with you before and I have come to a conclusion...

If it's me or AbyssalMaw talking, you want to drive your cock into our mouths because you can't stand reading something you don't like.

So if I shriek at you like you're a fucking psycho, it's because you have the tendencies of one.

You fucking psycho.

No, sweetheart, it's like I told AM and Seanchai a dozen times.  If you stop typing stupid shit, I will stop pointing out that you are typing stupid shit.

You want your entirely backwards interpretation of the discussion to be taken at face value and addressed as though it were valid.  Benoist tried to explain to you that isn't the correct interpretation, and then RandallS, who made the comment you are grossly misinterpreting also clarified that he was saying nothing like you were claiming he said.  It's really that simple.  You fucked up (again) and flew off the handle trying to dis-prove a point no one had made, then wanted accolades for it.  Except when it was pointed out that you were arguing against a point that was never made and people pointed out your strawman argument, you don't have the good grace to apologize for having an understanding that exactly the opposite of what was said, and either bow out or start a new line of argumentation based on the corrected viewpoint.  Instead, you pitch a fit like a three year old, and then expect people to take that seriously.

Honestly, the three of you make it exhausting to converse around here most days.  You all make what can only be described as intentionally stupid assessments, present those as settled fact, then repeat them ad infinitum no matter how wrong, and completely lose your shit when someone points out that your entire premise is false.

Seriously, if you are looking for someone with mental problems, you need to take a look at the guy sitting at your keyboard.  I can't imagine any of you three growing up in an environment where your views were challenged in any way.  Only child syndrome, homeschooled, I don't know.  You need to get out and learn how to interact with people, though, and stop throwing tantrums when you don't get a gold medal for simply holding an opinion.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373664Face it. A lot of RPG systems are rules-heavy and being the thinnest book in the RPG fat stack doesn't magically make a game rules-light. It's still heavy, its compatriots are just heavier.

So instead of rules -light/-medium/-heavy, to you it is -heavy/-reallyheavy/-reallyreallyheavy.

Quote from: StormBringer;373668*snip a lot of raving*

LOL. Get thee to an asylum.

Quote from: jeff37923;373670So instead of rules -light/-medium/-heavy, to you it is -heavy/-reallyheavy/-reallyreallyheavy.

Not really, at a certain point, games are just rules heavy and that's the limit. At that point, the issue of manageability becomes the primary concern.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373683LOL. Get thee to an asylum.

You need credibility for something like this to work.  As it stands, you are simply becoming more and more shrill.  To the point where you don't recognise sarcasm.

Quote from: Shazbot79;373667Exactly what criteria divides rules-lite, rules-medium and rules-heavy?

Apparently Uematsu knows the Universal Standard of RPG Heaviness that I haven't heard about.  Most of the time I categorize games by comparison to other games.  

How heavy?  

Heavier then X but Lighter then Y, etc.

One man's "Way too complicated to play" is another man's "little too abstract, needs more detail".

Quote from: CRKrueger;373697Apparently Uematsu knows the Universal Standard of RPG Heaviness that I haven't heard about.  Most of the time I categorize games by comparison to other games.

And I STATED I was comparing to OTHER GAMES not to some absolute standard of rules weight that I'm not aware of.

DeadUematsu is apparently a rules weight absolutist. We had similar debates over moral relativism/moral absolutism in philosophy class when I went to college. There was little common ground between those two positions, I suspect there is as little here -- which means I'm not going to waste further time arguing over this point.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373658Yes, he did. Rules medium, smedium. His thrust is a game became lighter because another system came on the scene. With that logic, fucking Aria became comprehensible when Timecube came into fruiton.

No, he said that the way we define "rules light, medium and heavy" changed, and it did. New even larger and more complex games change the standard. This isn't rocket science. Now you be fucking quiet assclown. When you learn to read english you can post again.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373664I am going to be perfectly clear. AD&D is a rules heavy game. No shifting standards is going to change that. RPG novices would call and have called bullshit on that claim. Face it. A lot of RPG systems are rules-heavy and being the thinnest book in the RPG fat stack doesn't magically make a game rules-light. It's still heavy, its compatriots are just heavier.

Who gives a flying fuck what you and the other RPG novices would "call bullshit" on? If what you're saying were true then even using the terms would be pointless, so what we in the adult world do is change the standards when bigger and more complex (or smaller and less complex) rules are written to allow the terms to remain relevant when describing length and complexity of a rules system. See, ya learned something new today.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;373686Not really, at a certain point, games are just rules heavy and that's the limit. At that point, the issue of manageability becomes the primary concern.

So in your world the term "rules heavy" actually has no meaning? Ok, you can live in whatever world ya want, but in that case why are you even involved in this discussion that has nothing to do with anything you want to discuss, other than to troll and be a dick like usual?

Quote from: Sigmund;373598I ask this because I know you're not actually trying to say the NWP system presented as an optional add-on is the same as the much more comprehensive skill system presented as not optional and more integrated into the game including replacing former class/race abilities from older editions (Balance, Arcana, Nature, Perception, Stealth Thievery), because that would be dishonest and/or stupid.

No, I'm not. I'm saying TSR had a skill system built into two editions of their D&D game, and they did. Clearly, they're not the same. But why do they have to be? Unless RandallS was trying to suggest they had to be exactly the same...

Seanchai

Quote from: Shazbot79;373667Exactly what criteria divides rules-lite, rules-medium and rules-heavy?

Personal preference.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;373763Personal preference.

Seanchai

And context, i.e. comparison with other games. Which means these notions do evolve over time, as more and more games are added to the mix, and the "cool kids" of RPGs play the musical chairs of popularity within the hobby.

Quote from: Seanchai;373761No, I'm not. I'm saying TSR had a skill system built into two editions of their D&D game, and they did. Clearly, they're not the same. But why do they have to be? Unless RandallS was trying to suggest they had to be exactly the same...

Seanchai

The reason them not being the same is not only important, but the actual crux of the issue, is because Randall said he likes older editions of D&D because, and this is just one of the reasons, he likes that their skill systems don't try to take the place of player skill. He likes older D&D because of either a lack of skills or lack of a skill system entirely thereby allowing the player to describe their actions as opposed to just rolling dice. So, the fact that the older versions only include skill systems that are optional rudimentary systems (if the secondary skills section could even be called a system) at best where the newer versions include much more comprehensive systems is exactly the point.