Quote from: ZalmoxisOne thing I have been thinking about is a fatigue-based casting system, by which spellcasting wears a caster down mentally without causing any loss to actual hit points.

I'd have to double check to be sure I'm remembering correctly, but I think that's essentially how the True20 magic system works.  There are 20 or so magical skills - spells are checks against a difficulty number, some magical skills cause fatigue.

I should have a look at true 20 then, because I like fatigue system but I don't want to tie them to hit points, if only because it feels weird that primary casters, who tend to have few hp, are not that good at sustaining spell casting.

I'm also looking for ways to avoid the X/day systems  because they're balanced against a parameter (basically what a PC is supposed to do in one given day) which is everchanging and varies wildly. It also bothers me because it introduces many differences in rythm between PCs, like the monumentally boring "one spellcaster is out of spell, let's rest !".

Since I'm mainly DMing Arcana Evolved these days, (where the spells power curve in level isn't as important as the D&D one), I'm wondering about letting spellcasters who used all their slots in the standard way continue to cast spells with some fatigue/malus/limitations.

random ideas for spell casts after exhaustion of spell slots:
- every spell cast diminishes primary spellcasting stat by its level for a duration
- every spell cast has is casting time doubled
- only diminished forms can be cast

I'm not sure about the duration, but the first option is kinda growing on me. It could also work for the ritual combats.

Chacal

Quote from: ChacalI should have a look at true 20 then, because I like fatigue system but I don't want to tie them to hit points, if only because it feels weird that primary casters, who tend to have few hp, are not that good at sustaining spell casting.

I'm also looking for ways to avoid the X/day systems  because they're balanced against a parameter (basically what a PC is supposed to do in one given day) which is everchanging and varies wildly. It also bothers me because it introduces many differences in rythm between PCs, like the monumentally boring "one spellcaster is out of spell, let's rest !".

Since I'm mainly DMing Arcana Evolved these days, (where the spells power curve in level isn't as important as the D&D one), I'm wondering about letting spellcasters who used all their slots in the standard way continue to cast spells with some fatigue/malus/limitations.

random ideas for spell casts after exhaustion of spell slots:
- every spell cast diminishes primary spellcasting stat by its level for a duration
- every spell cast has is casting time doubled
- only diminished forms can be cast

I'm not sure about the duration, but the first option is kinda growing on me. It could also work for the ritual combats.

Chacal

I think having something like a magic potential score for all characters, but inherantly higher among those trained as spellcasters, would work. I have tinkered with the idea of getting rid of saving throws altogether, and tying magic saves to this magic potential score. In that way all characters could still save against spells, but magic users would have a better capability in this regard. Personally I prefer spellcaster who are more front-loaded with lesser kinds of spells, and making higher level spells require group casting or serious planning/ritual. This is similar to the way magic is presented in folklore, with minor magics like enchantments, illusions, healing and divinations being pretty much standard to all spellcasters, be they shamans, witches, sorcerers or whatever.

The Black Company by Green Ronin has a decent system where you can weave spells together and is more skill based, but it involves a lot of math. Arcana Evolved has I think a preferrable system where each spells has a laden, normal and heightened effect. It allows you to cast spells of lower levels for laden effects or combine spell slots to cast heightened spells. It is very balanced and I really recommend it.

One of my players is designing a new system that mimics the flexability of thew psionics system but its still a long way off.

Quote from: sunfearOne of my players is designing a new system that mimics the flexability of thew psionics system but its still a long way off.

That would be me.

Quote from: ZalmoxisOne thing I have been thinking about is a fatigue-based casting system, by which spellcasting wears a caster down mentally without causing any loss to actual hit points. Such a state would leave the caster vulnerable to attack by other spellcasters, because spell duels would be handled like combat, with opposing rolls. Spellcasters with "full" slots would be unfatigued, and thus able to better defend themselves against attacks by other casters. Hmm. Just brainstorming today.

Here's one from Unearthed Arcana.  It's OGC.

Quote from: sunfearArcana Evolved has I think a preferrable system where each spells has a laden, normal and heightened effect. It allows you to cast spells of lower levels for laden effects or combine spell slots to cast heightened spells. It is very balanced and I really recommend it.

I haven't used it in play, but it does seem really good. There are a couple of places where the heightened/diminished thing isn't very well thought-out though, like the lesser raise the dead spell.

Let me explain, for those who are not familiar with the system. Each spell you know comes in three versions: a "diminished" version, the standard version, and a "heightened" version. The diminished version costs a spell slot of one level lower to cast, and the heightened one level higher. You still can't cast the diminished spell until you are of high enough level to cast the regular spell, though (partially "just because", and partially because you don't have any "spells readied" slots of that level yet).

So, IMO, diminished versions of the spells should still be useful compared to the standard version - they should be less powerful, but there should be situations where you would use the diminished spell as opposed to the regular spell in order to conserve resources. However, with the case of lesser raise the dead, the spell needs casting seven times over the course of a week, with each casting taking eight hours and costing 500 gp (material component). The only difference in the diminished version is that there's a 50% chance of failure at the end of the process.

Now, given that everyone who can cast diminished lesser raise the dead can also cast a regular lesser raise the dead, why would anyone choose to cast the diminished version?

Quote from: DackeNow, given that everyone who can cast diminished lesser raise the dead can also cast a regular lesser raise the dead, why would anyone choose to cast the diminished version?

A morbid form of gambling?
 
Or if you promised your cousin that you would cast raise dead on him but you never really liked him.

Another vote for Arcana Evolved/Unearthed here. It's a nice system that strikes the balances that i'm most interested in.

I'm now a full-fledged True20 pimp. Love the magic system in there.

Do the basic True20 rules differ substantially from the Blue Rose rules?

I know Blue Rose has stuff like Corruption and whatnot that would seem detrimental to a lot of high-fantasy sorcery.

-O

Quote from: obrynDo the basic True20 rules differ substantially from the Blue Rose rules?

I know Blue Rose has stuff like Corruption and whatnot that would seem detrimental to a lot of high-fantasy sorcery.

-O

Not substantially... it is basically Blue Rose without the setting; only the rules. I find the system is both constraining and liberating. It's easier to get what you want earlier, and spellcasters are more able to hold their own early-on, but fatigue is there to put limits on casters. I like that. Corruption did not make it into the core rules... I think that's just Blue Rose-specific. The spells are greatly simplified; for example, the spell Earth Shaping combines Move Earth, Soften Earth, Shape Stone and Earthquake into one spell... adjucated by difficulty checks. The spells are also stackable, using the prerequisites idea of feats.

I've always loved White Wolf's Mage magic but it is a much more complex system to handle.

I would love to see a fantasy variant that is more power appropriate but built off the same ideas.

I'm playing in a Mage game, and although the magic system is undoubtedly fun, I'm not really a fan at the moment.  Maybe it's because we're using Mage 1.0 with the most fantastically complex & ridiculous dice rolling system ever.  I dunno.

-O

Quote from: ZalmoxisI'm now a full-fledged True20 pimp. Love the magic system in there.

We are curious how the fatigue rules work.  We like the idea of a caster using spells until exhaustion, rather than having slots or points, but we have seen such systems where two magic missiles and a web would exhaust a 5th level character.