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Lets talk guns and granularity in RPGs

Started by GeekyBugle, April 25, 2021, 11:27:35 PM

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GeekyBugle

#150
November 03, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on November 03, 2021, 05:07:39 PM
Quote from: deadDMwalking on November 03, 2021, 03:21:15 PM

For example, a space-faring game that doesn't include Faster-than-Light travel isn't worth playing.  It doesn't matter AT ALL whether it is realistic - it just matters that it SEEMS realistic in the game.  Likewise, any system that includes MAGIC should not aim for realism.

Verisimilitude is king. 

Since you apparently missed half of a very short post, I'll repeat it ...

Quote from: Mishihari

... except where necessary to 1) simplify play or 2) accommodate any fantastic conceits of the system and setting ...


If your setting requires FTL, then put it in there, but anything that isn't important to the game premise should be kept realistic.  Far too often, I see arguments that because not everything is realistic then realism isn't important for anything.  Which leads to lousy game design, IMO.

So basically gravity, night day cycles, needing water/food and little else most of the time?

Lets get back to guns:

A handgun, has the following variables (modifiers) in the real world: Revolver/semi-auto, calliber, barrel lenght, ammo type, training, under pressure yes/no (I'll pretend I'm not missing any).

All of those have a real impact in the real world on range, accuracy, RoF and damage. Although not all of the variables impact all the things or to the same extent.

So I would need a huge ass table just for the handguns alone, plus the rules/mechanics to manage all of that.

IF I was trying to model reality, most of the time for most of the systems and most of the tables you're not, you're trying to model a pseudo reality, more like Hollywood action movies than real life.

So the real important thing here is consistency and verisimilitude. So the players KNOW how the world works and can suspend their disbelief to enjoy the game. For most of the stuff/people.

If you want to model real reality in some parts of your game that's fine, I know a guy that drived a DM nuts by using his accountant skills on a Traveller game.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

― George Orwell

Mishihari

#151
November 03, 2021, 09:57:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 03, 2021, 05:54:48 PM
A handgun, has the following variables (modifiers) in the real world: Revolver/semi-auto, calliber, barrel lenght, ammo type, training, under pressure yes/no (I'll pretend I'm not missing any).

All of those have a real impact in the real world on range, accuracy, RoF and damage. Although not all of the variables impact all the things or to the same extent.

So I would need a huge ass table just for the handguns alone, plus the rules/mechanics to manage all of that.

IF I was trying to model reality, most of the time for most of the systems and most of the tables you're not, you're trying to model a pseudo reality, more like Hollywood action movies than real life.

So the real important thing here is consistency and verisimilitude. So the players KNOW how the world works and can suspend their disbelief to enjoy the game. For most of the stuff/people.

If you want to model real reality in some parts of your game that's fine, I know a guy that drived a DM nuts by using his accountant skills on a Traveller game.

I basically agree that one can't model everything.  First, there's a lot of things we don't know how to model well mathematically (and I can say this because it's one of my areas of professional expertise), and second because even if we could it would make the game incredibly slow.  However, I actually already addressed that; I'll quote half of my very short excerpt above for emphasis:

Quote from: Mishihari

... except where necessary to 1) simplify play ...


I like a game that's realistic to the extent possible while still being fun to play, as in not bogged down by calculations.  There are tradeoffs, but it can be done.

And to the point of Hollywood vs RL combat, that gets back to the point of realistic "except where needed where needed to support the fantastic premise ..."  If Hollywood combat is an important element of a game, then put it in and I'll think it's great.  If it's not, then I want combat as realistic as possible.  ("As possible" meaning within the playability constraint I just discussed)
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